Must Have Been A Beer or 12 Involved

Sorry to kick the hornet's nest then disappear...
I would say though that it's not a perfect system that prohibits all vehicle operation at weight 'X' when the vehicle could be operated safely at, say, weight 'X' and 65% of maximum speed. Consider that the engineers have to allow for 80 MPH in Texas when the vehicle may never go there, or steep grades that a driver could simply go around.
That's where the personal responsibility aspect enters the freedom equation.

Lol, we called that part the 'way back'. I don't think we ever had more than two of us in it :).

Naio, no helicoptering here either, my dad, put three sisters and one brother in the seat behind him, my mom, and baby sister, ( 0n moms lap), Then I shared the " cubby hole" with my two younger brothers, ten of us in all.

Very nice post. I have 6 children. I do not think I ever encouraged my kids to do stupid and/ or dangerous things, however I did expose them to many activities that would test their athleticism and mental abilities equally. I think what was most important during their growth years that hey took personal responsibility in all choices they made. Sometimes they made poor choices, but I think the bad ones provided them with a wealth of information to take into their adult years.

Thank you, Reddog1, for your warm post :). I'd welcome you at my campfire, anytime!

It sounds like you found a great third way, for your kids.

It takes the naughtiness and mystery out of things, too, which is useful when stuff is dangerous. I know when we were kids we played with matches a few times, but really just BECAUSE it was forbidden. Lit a few matches, burned a few things, but it was not that interesting in itself, so we didn't do much.

My little sister was wiser -- she asked our dad to show her how to start a fire in the woodstove and outside. She became proficient at that stuff years before the rest of us. Younger kids are often smarter, socially :).

Naio, I take your post on your very seriously. If we were at a campfire, I really doubt we would argue much on this subject. I do think no mater what you or I believe, there will be those that argue. I had two children.

I exposed them to as many things as I could, with those dangerous to them under supervision. At about age 4, I found my son playing with matches. I sit him and his sister (1 year older) in the driveway, with a big box of kitchen matches. I watched while they burned the matches and paper. The quit when my son burned his finger. Never an issue since then. I could go down a list of similar experiences. Sheltered, never, supervised, always.

My kids seldom did those things I did as a kid, their decision due to controlled/supervised exposure. Neither have ever been arrested, neither have a college degree, both buying there own home by age 23, and both managers in their professions. Guess they are no longer kids at 49 and 50 years of age. I am pleased to say, all four of my grand kids (10, 14, 27, & 28) are following in their parents foot steps.

I've been thinking more about this, and I think it would be neat to discuss it a bit more deeply if you all are willing.

I may sound like I'm on one side, but really I am ambivalent.

I was raised in an extremely non-helicoptor way. And I am grateful for that every day. My life would be pretty boring if I did not have the skills and the sense of adventure and confidence that came from how I grew up.

But I also saw one of my closest friends killed in front of my eyes when I was 7. There was no camper or motor vehicle involved. He was doing farm chores, of a sort that no parent I know nowdays would allow, let alone require, a 7 year old to do on his own. He did nothing wrong, but had some bad luck. And now his parents live with that.

I don't have kids. I think if I did, I would not be as helicoptor-y as is fashionable, but I would not be as freewheeling as my parents were, either. Looking back on the stuff we did as kids, I am surprised as many of us survived as did. We took a lot of risks, and, mostly, we got lucky.

Reddog1 wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if there should be a law against hitting our fingers with a hammer. :h

I think that's still legal, as long as you do not expect taxpayers to pay for lifetime 100% disability due to your owie.

I'm thinking maybe there should be a law to have seat belts on motorcycles. Probably on riding lawn mowers also. I have seat belts on my big tractor, wonder it it is required by law. I've had the tractor over twenty-five years, and used the belt one time.

deltabravo wrote:

Tour1 wrote:
Is it now illegal to carry passengers in the camper part of a truck camper?

If the states you travel through have "seat belt laws" then yes, it would be illegal for passengers to ride in the camper.

Not necessarily. Oregon, for example, only requires that all seat belts you have are in use. I think you can still ride in the back of a pickup. There's still language in the law about the communication requirements for riding in a camper or 5th wheel.

Not that I am advocating one way or the other.