Need opinions on most critical TV weight limitation

I would put front axel rating as my top thing not to overload. Don't want to be breaking any steering component.

Need opinions on most critical TV weight limitation

Not fair to ask someone like me, who follows the ratings and system ratings. As I've
been a designer in that process, project manager running design teams, program
manager running whole product teams and up to a manager/exec in a $17BILLION/year
corporation's Strategy & Planning group. I understand both how the system works
and how the bean counter management exec's think and work

Not automotive directly, but never the less Corporate USA

Bottom line is all about making a profit. Not just from sales, but up to and a
bit past warranty coverage

There is margin in everything with a specification, limits and ratings. How much
is the big secret and we on the outside will never know

Meaning that the whole ratings system has a known MTBF (mean time between failure)
of any and everything.

Too small a MTBF and they left money on the table and we benefit

Too large and they lose profits being burned up in their warranty/service side


Why my original comment was to use that diagram as a dart board target

If me, I'd chose my RGAWR, as I know GM buys the axle assembly from AAM. AAM
rates it at 10,000 lb GAWR. GM rates it at 6,000 lb GAWR. Exact same assembly
from AAM is used for both the 2500 and 3500 dually

Going over will not have the axle assembly fail instantly, just sooner

The issue is that there is more to it than just weight carry rating of the rear
axle assembly.

The brakes are the same dia on both the 2500 and 3500 dually...but the brake
cylinders, shoe width, MC bores, proportioning valving, and must/might be an ETC

So, back to the above quoted title question...chose which one you want to break
due to an over load. Will you be able to continue on that trip? Maybe, but most
likely NOT

BurbMan wrote:
Tire rating is a safety issue, pure and simple...running tires overloaded could cause them to fail and unexpected or violent tire failure could dump the whole rig in the ditch.

The rear axle rating is almost always 2x the tire rating. Generally axles themselves in 2500/3500 trucks are rated at 10k+. Front axle ratings are hard to exceed unless you have the 5er hitch mounted like an air scoop.

GVWR has a longevity component to it...exceeding GVWR won't make the wheels fall off, but stuff will wear out faster then it was designed to.

GCWR has a performance component to it, meaning that you want the rig to do a respectable job on hills and on-ramps, not that you are winning races but so you are not going so slow that you pose a danger to others.

If you want some real opinions, post the numbers....

You asked for numbers so here they are.

Tires 3195 ea. (x2) 6390
RAWR 6010 actual 5520
FAWR 4800 actual 4100
GVWR TV 9000 actual 9620
GVWR 5er 14,056 actual 13,300
GCWR 20,000 actual 20,460
payload 2400 actual 3000

TV 2006 Dodge 2500 Laramie CTD crewcab shortbed 4x2

rhagfo wrote:

4bearhug wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
My order of importance/priority

1) Rear Tire MAX LOAD Rating
2) RAWR
3) GVWR

I'm comfortable running at tire MAX Load, at RAWR and over GVWR

Not concerned with GCWR as I would have to exceed the other ratings to reach GCWR OR FAWR cause with a 5vr the front axle weight doesn't change much and is way under rating

Nor am I concerned with mfg. MAX Tow Rating as that is a magical number achieved by marketing group.........not in real world towing as most vehicle ratings would have to be exceeded to reach MAX TOW Rating

This is what I was looking for. In fact you have exactly described my situation. I'm under on tires, FAWR, and RAWR, but over on GVWR. I'm fairly close to max or just over on GCWR and just under on max tow.
I don't know if I'm comfortable with these results, but am happy to actually know where I stand.

Not an endorsement of this, but caught in the same situation.
I determined if I was in limits at the dealer by hooking up the 5er on the hitch and lifting the landing gear! 5er wasn't that big, and truck set better than level. I was real happy until the first time I hit the scales loaded! :S

Tires No issue the are for Camper package 3,415# rating (stock 3,042#)
Rear axle no issue 6,084# rating
Front axle no issue 5,200#
GVWR 8,800# we have an issue this is only 78% of total axle rating.
GCVWR 16,000 with 3.55 20,000# with 4.10's

I exceed my GVWR, and because I have 3.55's, but have a chip for more HP I exceed my GCVWR, but still under the rating for 4.10's

I am comfortable with this and this setup, not an endorsement to do, just that I feel safe and it handles well.
I am totally relaxed driving the roads to the coast and many look like these with 55mph to 60 mph travel speeds.

That road looks like interstate compared to some of the roads I tow on in WV.:)

sorry, off topic..

I'm a believer in trying to stay within the weight limits recommended by truck manufacturer. That's the way I "do the math" when I purchase a truck.

4bearhug wrote:

Old-Biscuit wrote:
My order of importance/priority

1) Rear Tire MAX LOAD Rating
2) RAWR
3) GVWR

I'm comfortable running at tire MAX Load, at RAWR and over GVWR

Not concerned with GCWR as I would have to exceed the other ratings to reach GCWR OR FAWR cause with a 5vr the front axle weight doesn't change much and is way under rating

Nor am I concerned with mfg. MAX Tow Rating as that is a magical number achieved by marketing group.........not in real world towing as most vehicle ratings would have to be exceeded to reach MAX TOW Rating

This is what I was looking for. In fact you have exactly described my situation. I'm under on tires, FAWR, and RAWR, but over on GVWR. I'm fairly close to max or just over on GCWR and just under on max tow.
I don't know if I'm comfortable with these results, but am happy to actually know where I stand.

Not an endorsement of this, but caught in the same situation.
I determined if I was in limits at the dealer by hooking up the 5er on the hitch and lifting the landing gear! 5er wasn't that big, and truck set better than level. I was real happy until the first time I hit the scales loaded! :S

Tires No issue the are for Camper package 3,415# rating (stock 3,042#)
Rear axle no issue 6,084# rating
Front axle no issue 5,200#
GVWR 8,800# we have an issue this is only 78% of total axle rating.
GCVWR 16,000 with 3.55 20,000# with 4.10's

I exceed my GVWR, and because I have 3.55's, but have a chip for more HP I exceed my GCVWR, but still under the rating for 4.10's

I am comfortable with this and this setup, not an endorsement to do, just that I feel safe and it handles well.
I am totally relaxed driving the roads to the coast and many look like these with 55mph to 60 mph travel speeds.

Tire rating is a safety issue, pure and simple...running tires overloaded could cause them to fail and unexpected or violent tire failure could dump the whole rig in the ditch.

The rear axle rating is almost always 2x the tire rating. Generally axles themselves in 2500/3500 trucks are rated at 10k+. Front axle ratings are hard to exceed unless you have the 5er hitch mounted like an air scoop.

GVWR has a longevity component to it...exceeding GVWR won't make the wheels fall off, but stuff will wear out faster then it was designed to.

GCWR has a performance component to it, meaning that you want the rig to do a respectable job on hills and on-ramps, not that you are winning races but so you are not going so slow that you pose a danger to others.

If you want some real opinions, post the numbers....

Old-Biscuit wrote:
My order of importance/priority

1) Rear Tire MAX LOAD Rating
2) RAWR
3) GVWR

I'm comfortable running at tire MAX Load, at RAWR and over GVWR

Not concerned with GCWR as I would have to exceed the other ratings to reach GCWR OR FAWR cause with a 5vr the front axle weight doesn't change much and is way under rating

Nor am I concerned with mfg. MAX Tow Rating as that is a magical number achieved by marketing group.........not in real world towing as most vehicle ratings would have to be exceeded to reach MAX TOW Rating

This is what I was looking for. In fact you have exactly described my situation. I'm under on tires, FAWR, and RAWR, but over on GVWR. I'm fairly close to max or just over on GCWR and just under on max tow.
I don't know if I'm comfortable with these results, but am happy to actually know where I stand.

Take a dart and toss it onto this diagram and take that as your weakest link in
the food chain of ratings system... ;)

Or choose which component/system you wish to wear out or fail first... :B

Or guesstimate what each rating's margins are and then consume those
margins knowing that there will still be enough left when you sell
the vehicle... ;)

{edit}...they are all critical, as any one that fails will bring down
the rest of the 'system'

Can't get more clear than this:

Ford Towing Guide wrote:

Trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight should be 10-15% (15-25% for 5th-wheel towing) of total loaded trailer weight. Make sure vehicle payload (reduce by option weight) will accommodate trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo added to towing vehicle. Addition of trailer tongue (trailer king pin for 5th-wheel towing) load weight and weight of passengers and cargo must not cause vehicle weights to exceed rear GAWR or GVWR. These ratings can be found on the vehicle Safety Compliance Certification Label.

So that means the lowest of your specific truck/trailer combo rating should not be exceeded according to your vehicle manufacturer. Many people exceed one or more of their ratings to varied real world performance. Only you can choose to follow the manufacturer specs and if not, which ones are "important".

K Charles wrote:
I think you forgot the big one, tires, what do your tires say they can hold?

That is the most limiting item of most 250/2500 - 350-3500 trucks.

Chris