New ball joints needed at 30,000 miles?

[nano]

We have a 2012 Ram 2500. Just turned 30,000 miles. Brought it in for a recall and oil change, and found that both upper and lower ball joints are shot. Does that seem right? We only haul our 5th wheel about 300 miles total per year. That's the only workout our truck gets.

[brooks379]

Truck dealers can charge a lot of money to replace the cheap Ball/U joint they put in trucks. I have never had to replace a Spicer or Moog grease able joint after I installed them and always used quality grease regularly with them. You can talk until the cows come home but in the end you need.... QUALITY GREASE ABLE BALL/U JOINTS.... We have owned a lot of big semi's and heavy duty pick ups and it all comes down to Quality parts and Quality grease !!

[blofgren]

The ball joints in my 2003 F-350 were absolutely shot at around 85,000 miles to the point that they were making a tremendous amount of noise while turning and the steering actually locked up a couple of times while backing up the trailer. Replaced them with greasable Spicers and they were much better.

[FishOnOne]

Wes Tausend wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

Hell I agree with your points J2S :B

You can include what most manufacturers are competing at is the overall cost of ownership, but in the end it's a cost cutting measure.

Troy,

I'm not so sure the greaseless ball joints are a cost cutting measure so much as a different design that is not compatable with zerks or having a lube passageway hole. I can't remember where I found it, but I found info on the web that the reason Ford used greaseless zerks was because they use a nylon(?) socket cup to receive the ball in the ball joints. I imagine a cup hole for grease path would even be detrimental.

The reason they use these type joints is because they reduce turning effort and allow caster settings to do their job for better handling. I posted a long saga about how I found this out in this other thread.

By my measurements, I believe Ford factory greaseless balljoints do steer better. If I replace ball joints in my V-10 Excursion, I will spec OEM balljoints. The first ones have exceeded 100k miles. Steel-on-steel may be more durable, but Ford engineered life is plenty good enough for me.

Wes
...

In my opinion the Super Duty's come with the really good grease less ball joints. We have two Super Duty's ('02 and '03) with 7.3's with ~350k combined miles with original ball joints.
My last two personal trucks have been Super Duty's with a combined 250k miles, and I haven't changed ball joints in them either. I agree if ball joints ever have to be replaced, I would go with the Ford OEM parts without question.

[Wes_Tausend]

FishOnOne wrote:

Hell I agree with your points J2S :B

You can include what most manufacturers are competing at is the overall cost of ownership, but in the end it's a cost cutting measure.

Troy,

I'm not so sure the greaseless ball joints are a cost cutting measure so much as a different design that is not compatable with zerks or having a lube passageway hole. I can't remember where I found it, but I found info on the web that the reason Ford used greaseless zerks was because they use a nylon(?) socket cup to receive the ball in the ball joints. I imagine a cup hole for grease path would even be detrimental.

The reason they use these type joints is because they reduce turning effort and allow caster settings to do their job for better handling. I posted a long saga about how I found this out in this other thread.

By my measurements, I believe Ford factory greaseless balljoints do steer better. If I replace ball joints in my V-10 Excursion, I will spec OEM balljoints. The first ones have exceeded 100k miles. Steel-on-steel may be more durable, but Ford engineered life is plenty good enough for me.

Wes
...

[FishOnOne]

jus2shy wrote:

FishOnOne wrote:

GeoBoy wrote:

brooks379 wrote:
I've seen ball joints wear out in 30,000 mile. They are the non grease able ball joints the big 3 US Auto makers use on trucks .I have a F 350 with only 2 grease zerts on the whole front end. Get them replaced with quality grease able ball joints and u joints while it's apart, grease them with good quality grease and you will probably never replace them again.

A co-worker has a 2015 Ram 3500 dually and no grease fittings, my 2015 GMC Sierra 3500HD dually has 8 grease fittings. Why don't all the truck mfg. have grease fittings on the front suspensions? It cannot be due to cost savings.

Probably due to costs savings... Having said that not all non grease able ball joints are bad.

I rotated the tires on my truck (with no grease able ball joints) with 84k miles and couldn't feel any slop in any ball joints.

Reason why many manufacturers moved away from greasable ball joints is because the current majority of vehicle owners (and probably dealerships) would never utilize them or even utilize them correctly. It cuts down on warranty issues and usually gets the vehicle to the end of the warranty period. Or some of the users that do grease their joints, don't think to clean off the zerk before applying grease (thereby getting dirt and grime into the greased joint). Or some do the opposite and over-grease a ball joint, breaking the rubber seal and getting grease all over the place (guilty of this when I was just a teenager). Hell, there's 1 grease zerk on my RAM that's hard to get to and most dealerships don't even know it exists (it's for the front cardan joint on the forward drive shaft). I also bet most lube techs over-greased joints as well and would break the rubber seal, since many of them are straight out of high school. How often do owners that actually know how to maintain their vehicle have to go and correct the work and correct a "Service Adviser" when it comes to performing certain maintenance tasks? Hell, even ordering coolant for my truck was a pain, FCA changed from a HOAT to an OAT in 2013 and most dealerships weren't aware of that and almost gave me the wrong coolant. Hell, my dealership wasn't aware of a second fuel filter that resides underneath the bed of my vehicle, they kept telling me there was only 1 filter on there until I had them lift my vehicle and I showed them the actual filter, hence laying down the "STFU and gimme my filter".

I had a similar experience with Ford as well, especially when they took issue with me installing a 2nd USB port (That already existed on the F-150). Had to show them that I added no hardware except for a cable before they'd warranty my head unit for acting weird.

It makes sense from the manufacturer's stand point in reducing claims and issues with maintaining vehicles. Less to "Maintain" means less opportunity for screw-ups.

Hell I agree with your points J2S :B

You can include what most manufacturers are competing at is the overall cost of ownership, but in the end it's a cost cutting measure.

[jus2shy]

FishOnOne wrote:

GeoBoy wrote:

brooks379 wrote:
I've seen ball joints wear out in 30,000 mile. They are the non grease able ball joints the big 3 US Auto makers use on trucks .I have a F 350 with only 2 grease zerts on the whole front end. Get them replaced with quality grease able ball joints and u joints while it's apart, grease them with good quality grease and you will probably never replace them again.

A co-worker has a 2015 Ram 3500 dually and no grease fittings, my 2015 GMC Sierra 3500HD dually has 8 grease fittings. Why don't all the truck mfg. have grease fittings on the front suspensions? It cannot be due to cost savings.

Probably due to costs savings... Having said that not all non grease able ball joints are bad.

I rotated the tires on my truck (with no grease able ball joints) with 84k miles and couldn't feel any slop in any ball joints.

Reason why many manufacturers moved away from greasable ball joints is because the current majority of vehicle owners (and probably dealerships) would never utilize them or even utilize them correctly. It cuts down on warranty issues and usually gets the vehicle to the end of the warranty period. Or some of the users that do grease their joints, don't think to clean off the zerk before applying grease (thereby getting dirt and grime into the greased joint). Or some do the opposite and over-grease a ball joint, breaking the rubber seal and getting grease all over the place (guilty of this when I was just a teenager). Hell, there's 1 grease zerk on my RAM that's hard to get to and most dealerships don't even know it exists (it's for the front cardan joint on the forward drive shaft). I also bet most lube techs over-greased joints as well and would break the rubber seal, since many of them are straight out of high school. How often do owners that actually know how to maintain their vehicle have to go and correct the work and correct a "Service Adviser" when it comes to performing certain maintenance tasks? Hell, even ordering coolant for my truck was a pain, FCA changed from a HOAT to an OAT in 2013 and most dealerships weren't aware of that and almost gave me the wrong coolant. Hell, my dealership wasn't aware of a second fuel filter that resides underneath the bed of my vehicle, they kept telling me there was only 1 filter on there until I had them lift my vehicle and I showed them the actual filter, hence laying down the "STFU and gimme my filter".

I had a similar experience with Ford as well, especially when they took issue with me installing a 2nd USB port (That already existed on the F-150). Had to show them that I added no hardware except for a cable before they'd warranty my head unit for acting weird.

It makes sense from the manufacturer's stand point in reducing claims and issues with maintaining vehicles. Less to "Maintain" means less opportunity for screw-ups.

[FishOnOne]

GeoBoy wrote:

brooks379 wrote:
I've seen ball joints wear out in 30,000 mile. They are the non grease able ball joints the big 3 US Auto makers use on trucks .I have a F 350 with only 2 grease zerts on the whole front end. Get them replaced with quality grease able ball joints and u joints while it's apart, grease them with good quality grease and you will probably never replace them again.

A co-worker has a 2015 Ram 3500 dually and no grease fittings, my 2015 GMC Sierra 3500HD dually has 8 grease fittings. Why don't all the truck mfg. have grease fittings on the front suspensions? It cannot be due to cost savings.

Probably due to costs savings... Having said that not all non grease able ball joints are bad.

I rotated the tires on my truck (with no grease able ball joints) with 84k miles and couldn't feel any slop in any ball joints.

[GeoBoy]

brooks379 wrote:
I've seen ball joints wear out in 30,000 mile. They are the non grease able ball joints the big 3 US Auto makers use on trucks .I have a F 350 with only 2 grease zerts on the whole front end. Get them replaced with quality grease able ball joints and u joints while it's apart, grease them with good quality grease and you will probably never replace them again.

A co-worker has a 2015 Ram 3500 dually and no grease fittings, my 2015 GMC Sierra 3500HD dually has 8 grease fittings. Why don't all the truck mfg. have grease fittings on the front suspensions? It cannot be due to cost savings.

[Wes_Tausend]

...

Nano,

I go along with the folks that would get the specs checked and go from there. I sincerely doubt that they are "worn out". I just went through a long process regarding a surprising lack of chassis knowledge present in many shops that should know better. My wife and I own two current Ford 4x4 trucks, both year 2000. But I imagine suspension problems are all similar and very few shops in my area appear to understand the principles behind any proper alignment. My other post explains more here.

Good luck.

Wes
...

[Gale_Hawkins]

I agree on going with better than OEM parts.

If trading a year down the road drive it. If going to keep it for the next 5 years look at going with working truck grade parts and be done with it as brooks379 suggests.

[brooks379]

I've seen ball joints wear out in 30,000 mile. They are the non grease able ball joints the big 3 US Auto makers use on trucks .I have a F 350 with only 2 grease zerts on the whole front end. Get them replaced with quality grease able ball joints and u joints while it's apart, grease them with good quality grease and you will probably never replace them again.

[Perrysburg_Dodg]

No it should not need new ball joints. Is the truck still covered under the three year 36,000 mile warranty? If you are just out of warranty ask your dealer to contact FCA/Ram and see if they will cover the repair under a good will repair. Your dealer will have to make the call.

I replaced the ball joints on my 2004 at 78,000 lowers and 100,000 for the uppers.

Don

[bobsallyh]

2003 dually 2 wheel drive. Replaced ball joints at 179,000. Fulltimer pulling a 39' fiver.

[Captain_Happy]

It's a common problem with trucks with very heavy Diesel engines I was told. Good thing you've got a Dodge and not a Ford or Chev, they cost a hollow lot more to replace. That being said, most of all your over the road big trucks have I-beam front ends.

[garyp4951]

2500 Grunt wrote:
Find out what the allowable spec's are for the ball joints(on your own)and ask them what kind of reading they got on their dial indicator/gauge or whatever they use. You can't just use a pry bar and see them move 1mm up and down and say they are wore out. Also, ask them to show you if you still don't feel comfortable with it. I had a smaller shop in town tell me that mine were wore out then I took it to Dodge and they said no they are not.

This is exactly what a shop told me two years ago when they used the pry bar method. I did not replace them, and it still drives good. I think a lot of people have replaced ball joints when they really didn't need to, just because they were a fraction out of spec.