Newbie Couple Purchase

tnrv'er wrote:
Last train, do you have WD hitch ?

Apologies for missing your question, TN. Had another camping trip up around the Tyler, TX area since this thread unfolded, and the stuff of life just got in the way.

The answer is "no," we do not use a WD hitch with our Ridgeline.

This was another considered decision that came out of research on the truck and TT. And this is discussed back and forth among Ridgeline owners who tow travel trailers on the ridgelineownersforum.com. The discussion pivots around: (1) the direct admonition in the Ridgeline owner's manual that advises against the use of a WD hitch - with the statement that an incorrectly adjusted WD hitch can have adverse affects on the truck's handling and braking characteristics, etc. (this is not an exact quote 'cause I'm too lazy to go to the garage and get the manual out of the truck!, but it's close); (2) available engineering analysis from internal Honda sources that certifies that the truck was designed and engineered to function very well without a WD hitch - as long as you stayed within its stated limits. (Lots of reasons for this that I could post in an already too long response, but PM me if you want an actual document that discusses the points.)

So on the one hand you could say that Honda's cautionary statement is full of "CYA." If nothing else, we all know that you can get good professional assistance in correctly setting up a good WD hitch system - even though many may "wing it" and therefore not get the thing set up correctly. Regardless, Honda doesn't want to get sued any more than anyone else.

On the other hand, and this is where we landed, I took the overall evidence from the Ridgeline owners who reported that their trucks and TT rigs behaved very well without a WD hitch installed. And further, I examined every discoverable shred of Ridgeline towing analysis I could find to gain a level of comfort in going on without one. And I trusted what Gary Flint's design team (I misspelled his last name with a "y" in an earlier post) had done in creating the Ridgeline. As I understand it, they wanted to create a sort of "Swiss Army knife" truck that already possessed multiple capabilities engineered and built into the vehicle - without requiring the owner/user to option out a bunch of other gear to equip it for various tasks.

That approach created some penalties, because there are lots of other trucks out there that excel in certain areas more so than the Ridgeline. But they also may not be able to do the number of things the Ridgeline can do quite well - though maybe not exceptionally. The Gen 1 Ridgeline deserves criticism for less than best MPG, only 247 lb/ft of torque in a 250 hp engine and its infamously weird appearance (to many people). But it does so many things very well, including towing without a WD hitch. (The newly released Gen 2, 2017 model Ridgeline successfully addresses all the things mentioned above - and more.)

We do use a friction sway bar, and that has contributed to our solid towing experience. The weight distribution on the truck is 58% - 42% front to rear as it is sitting in our garage at the moment (I'm stating from memory so somebody don't shoot me if I'm off a digit - but I do think I'm correct). So when we hitch up our 192 RBS with the tongue weights I've noted above (480-520 or so) the rear bumper drops at the most 2". But again, the truck is natively designed to function well with these kind of loads. It is designed to act like this. And I'm not feeling light on the front axle for steering/handling, for instance. And we live in Texas where winds are an export crop, and we've towed in winds from all directions of the compass without any issues whatsoever.

But with all of this said, there is no way in the world that I would suddenly feel full of "truck testosterone" and hitch up a 6,000 lb trailer with 700 lb tongue weight (to make up a silly example) to this Ridgeline and set out on a trip. The truck is just not designed to do that. But for what we've got, it's hitch and go. In fact, getting ready soon to head over to Bastrop State Park for a few days. Should be lots of fun and an easy tow . . . but then, there are always those winds to knock our mileage down!

i'm in the same dilemma myself. I want to buy a lightweight TT but have 2 cars an Audi A3 fwd and a Audi A4 quattro, both with 2.0T engines producing 200 and 225hp each. I went to a camping and RV show in Toronto last weekend and stopped by dealer CAN AM RV who are the towing experts. They are known for building custom hitches to allow smaller cars the ability to tow safely. For example, they use a VW Jetta to tow a 16 ft Airstream and I was told my A3 could do the same since A3 and Jetta share same platform. They also show a Chrysler 300M with a V6 towing a 30ft Airstream. The videos show the rigorous testing they put these tow cars through to show how safe they are. The trailers Im considering are much lighter than an AS. 2 Prolite models, one at 1500lbs and the Evasion model coming in at just under 2000lbs, with tongue weights on both under 200 lbs. Also considering a T@B which is about 1700lbs.
After reading through this thread I now feel very unsure on what I should do. I see both sides of the story. Just to add another tidbit of info, the UK and Europe tow with cars all the time and the same manufactures do list the tow ratings. According to the UK ratings for Audi A3 I can tow 3000lbs. On top of that many trailers in UK don't even use brakes like in US and CAN. My understanding is car manufacturers here want people to chose a truck or suv over a car to tow. I'm thinking that if I get a custom class 3 hitch on my car I should be ok. But now after reading all these comments, not so sure.

Lots of people tow Casitas and Escape trailers with Pilots. We have a 2017 Pilot EX-L AWD with a 5,000 lb tow rating and will tow our Escape 17B with it after the Touareg TDI goes back to VW as part of the buyback. You will need about $850 worth of options to get the 5,000 lb tow rating: Hitch, wiring harness, and ATF cooler. Without the ATF cooler you can only tow 3,500 lbs.

Our Escape 17B weighs about 3,100 lbs with full water tanks. It is heavily optioned so that's a worst-case scenario for that model.

NYCgrrl wrote:
The smallest car I've ever heard of in it's weight class for occasional towing of a small TT is some kind of Volkswagen. I need to wander thru the blog to find the version he uses to tow and will get back to you when I find it.

Was it this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpwH9WeVEfU :D

LS

SoundGuy wrote:

Last Train wrote:
Our CAT Scale weights (we weigh regularly) typically show a trailer weight of 4600-4700 lbs. Our tongue weights come in around 480-520 lbs.

Average gross weight for our 2014 192RBS also typically runs ~ 4600 lbs, a bit more those times I may be carrying content in the black tank as well. However, where we differ is gross tongue weight as mine typically averages 600+ lbs (confirmed with my Sherline TW scale) or ~ 13% of it's gross weight and certainly about as little as I'd want to be running. I'm surprised yours is so much less, only ~ 11% which IMO is far too little. As I've done with previous trailers I did move the spare tire to the front pass through cargo compartment and that certainly did help improve gross tongue weight but I'd still prefer a bit more, which I'd probably achieve if I ever upgrade from a single G27 battery on the tongue to a pair of batteries. I suppose so little gross tongue weight may better match the capabilities of your Ridgeline but that's nonetheless awfully light for a trailer averaging ~ 4600 to 4700 lbs loaded and ready to camp.

Great observations, SoundGuy. As we've occasionally posted back and forth I think I can say that we share a passion for precision and procedure in what we do. Your comments about tongue weight are educational for all. Appropriate tongue weight is critical for avoiding trailer sway. And yes, we have typically been on the low end of that generally understood ratio of 10-15% of trailer weight - even after multiple (night before departure) CAT Scale weigh-ins with full fuel, fluids, trailer totally packed in travel configuration, tools and other detritus stowed in our in-bed trunk below the bed and then other weather-tolerant items in the bed, plus wife, plus dog, snacks, etc. (everybody knows how this goes!) in the cab. Virtual "Beverly Hillbillies" stuff!

We have kept our spare tire in its original location under the frame since we made the decision to maximize the space in that huge passthrough our trailers have. I have not yet installed an inverter in our passthrough since we have not yet dry camped that much to justify it (might yet happen, though). I did add a second deep cycle G24 battery for a bit extra battery power, however - so there is some weight to account for there. We usually do not carry any fresh water to speak of but like you perhaps some content in our black and grey tanks - but only then if we are staying in a series of "one nighters" on a longer journey (like we did on our trip last year to the Ozark Mountains).

So with our comparative tongue weight differences resulting in a positive towing experience for you in your Avalanche and us in our Ridgeline, I guess I have to fall back on your "matching the capabilities of the Ridgeline" comment. Maybe we've just hit the sweet spot of the engineering of that truck. I remember last year while on that Ozark Mountain trip I was regularly posting about our towing experiences in the ridgelineownersclub.com forum so others could comment. The basic responses from other Ridgeline owners who regularly tow similar configurations: "Ho-hum. Tell us something we don't already know." Just load the truck and trailer properly, mash and go. We've been blessed with basically uneventful experiences - but always being on guard for those unplanned for emergencies that's can happen to any of us.

On a somewhat whimsical, but very informative note, just earlier today when on that Ridgeline forum someone posted this link to a YouTube video of some guy's review of the truck's off-road capabilities. He was reviewing a 2014 model, but my engine and drivetrain are identical to the Ridgeline he reviewed. I think it is informative in the sense that Honda's AWD system with VTM-4 and VSA each contribute to inherent stability - not to mention that extremely stiff and strong unibody construction: Off Road Review: Honda Ridgeline

Gosh, I hate to be a wet blanket, but I have to agree -- that car is not going to do the job at all. Unsafe.

We tow a small hard sided trailer with a Tacoma -- no problem at all. See the links in my signature.

One more word of advice -- twelve years ago, we had never done any camping. We bought a small trailer, thinking it was just a temporary experiment. It has turned into a whole new lifestyle for us. So don't do this unless you are prepared to get hooked!! ;)

Jebby14 wrote:
as someone intimately familiar with the current ridgeline (im an automation designer and did a lot of the tooling for it) I do not have any desire to own one at their current price point. I think there are several better options. That said, to each their own. If a ridgeline is what your after I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it. Good luck with whatever you chose.

Thanks for the response and your insight. Had we had the option to follow the best path for purchasing; i.e. trailer first, then tow vehicle, we might have gone a different route. Our circumstance simply didn't allow that, so that's why we put so much research into matching our truck and trailer.

And I wholeheartedly agree, Honda has really missed the mark in their pricing. The current Gen 2 truck - in the highest two trim levels - is commanding right at MSRP - and often a wait of 2-3 months. You can get a very nicely equipped 1/2 ton - assuming significant discounts - for about the same price. But it's all about what you want/need a truck to do and how often you need to do it.

Illustration: got a great friend with whom I hunt. The deer lease we were on together was about an 8 hour drive from our homes out to west Texas (south of Sweetwater in Taylor County at the extreme northern edge of the Hill Country). He bought a Ford F-150 with the long bed and 3.5 Ecoboost specifically to make trips out there. Fantastic truck! I know, I've driven it on the highway and used those twin turbos to pass traffic. What a beast! At highway speeds it just glides down the road. (Navigating parking lots and parking garages - not so great.) It handles dirt and rock ranch roads OK, but you better not try it on a muddy surface. A few years ago we were headed to a stand that required him driving on a rain slick muddy surface from rain the night before. Truck couldn't make it with its 2WD. We got it out by me nursing it in reverse while he literally pushed on the front hood. We made a memory!

You know how he typically uses that great truck? Once a year, coming home from the lease, he loads a small ATV on a small trailer and tows that thing. Throws maybe a couple of hundred pounds in the bed and cab. Other than that, he never tows nor hauls anything. It sits in his extra large garage right beside most of the time next to their Ford Explorer - which gets virtually all of the daily driving (super SUV, by the way). I believe that my Ridge's AWD variable traction management system (VTM-4) would not have had a problem on that muddy road. And for sure I could have towed his ATV and hauled our gear easily. The penalty? Not as much interior room as his F-150, absolutely, not to mention incredible power - though our mileage figures are strikingly similar when not towing.

So my point is that there is no "perfect tool for the job," truck-wise. Lots of great options out there that the OP needs to investigate. The Ridgeline is one of them. But in light of some dismissive comments about its capabilities and our years of positive towing experience, it seemed appropriate to introduce a different viewpoint. As you said, to each their own.

Last train, do you have WD hitch ?

Last Train wrote:
Our CAT Scale weights (we weigh regularly) typically show a trailer weight of 4600-4700 lbs. Our tongue weights come in around 480-520 lbs.

Average gross weight for our 2014 192RBS also typically runs ~ 4600 lbs, a bit more those times I may be carrying content in the black tank as well. However, where we differ is gross tongue weight as mine typically averages 600+ lbs (confirmed with my Sherline TW scale) or ~ 13% of it's gross weight and certainly about as little as I'd want to be running. I'm surprised yours is so much less, only ~ 11% which IMO is far too little. As I've done with previous trailers I did move the spare tire to the front pass through cargo compartment and that certainly did help improve gross tongue weight but I'd still prefer a bit more, which I'd probably achieve if I ever upgrade from a single G27 battery on the tongue to a pair of batteries. I suppose so little gross tongue weight may better match the capabilities of your Ridgeline but that's nonetheless awfully light for a trailer averaging ~ 4600 to 4700 lbs loaded and ready to camp.

as someone intimately familiar with the current ridgeline (im an automation designer and did a lot of the tooling for it) I do not have any desire to own one at their current price point. I think there are several better options. That said, to each their own. If a ridgeline is what your after I hope you get many years of enjoyment out of it. Good luck with whatever you chose.