Newbie need help with purchase decision

[95jersey]

I am brand new camper looking at my local dealers for 18-22ft travel trailers. There are quite a few options and floor plans to choose. Within my size and budget, the dealer has recommended KZ Sportsman Classics in multiple configurations. The prices are all within say a couple thousand of each other, so the decision is going to come down to floor plan and up or downsides to each. More specifically my questions is regarding fully enclosed vs. expandable fold outs.

Just for argument sake, let's keep the discussion down to these 3 options. Any brand I wind up with will probably have similar configurations. The 19BHS is fully enclosed and has a slide out to create more floor space. The other 2 have expandable fold outs to create more floor space.

19BHS


18RBT


20RBT


What are the pro/cons between the fully enclosed vs. going with the expandable fold outs? Is there more maintenance with one? Is one going to be colder/hotter than the other? Is sleeping in an fold out worse than sleeping in a fully enclosed? What are the gotcha's that I am missing?

The way I see it, the bunk version (enclosed) can sleep 4-5, the expandable about the same, but there is a little more arm/leg room in the expandable...but it may get cold/hot depending on outside weather??? I guess you would hear the rain more???

It seems to me that the fold out versions are the way to go for more living space, sleeping space, and a larger bathroom. Based on the price it seems you get a lot more value with the 20RBT. It also has a larger AC unit and full size fridge. Am I missing anything?

18RBT $13,250 +/-
19BHS $14,750 +/-
20RBT $16,280 +/-

[DutchmenSport]

Well said, SoundGuy. Same experience with our pop-up, except the wife sat in our Mini Van while I drowned in the rain!

I'm sure, if you fold up the tent ends in the rain, once home, you'll need to open them up again to dry out. Otherwise all the "wet" will be inside the camper. It may dry from the fabric INSIDE the camper, but where does that evaporated water eventually go to (inside the camper). It's a breeding ground for the start of mold. So when you get home, you really need to open up those tent ends so they'll dry out. If you don't have the space at home for a longer trailer, you won't have the space to open them up either.

We were fortunate with our pop-up. I could push it into our garage, turn it slightly and then raise the top about 2 feet before the roof hit the garage door opener. I could then pull the bunk ends out, and let the tent material hang and dry. If it was still raining outside at home, sometimes it still took several days to completely dry. You don't want to close a camper up with wet fabric and keep it that way. Mold will form.

So at home, you really need the space to open the bunk ends all the way too. If you don't have the extra room, you are best to go with a hard sided trailer that fits your parking spot.

[russkerri]

I just listened to a good podcast about the pros/cons of a hybrid. There's a lot to consider. Here's a link to the blog and podcast: Click

[SoundGuy]

95jersey wrote:
Please help me understand the humidity/water issue you are all referring to? Why would people put tarps over an already waterproof canvas tent? Also how does water droplets fall on you in sleep? Does it form on the inside or seep in from the outside?

Nothing to do with water leakage and everything to do with fact that tenting offers an insulation factor of just about zero. Many (myself included at the time) cover those bunk ends with solar reflective panels, either DIY or commercially available Popup Gizmos. Despite some claiming they're not necessary Popup Gizmos are hugely popular with many popup and hybrid owners as they significantly reduce heat build up inside the camper during hot weather and minimize heat loss during cold weather. Cover your bunk ends with PUGs every time you use the camper and you also won't ever have to clean the tenting again. You'll also find the chances of condensation building up inside the camper to be much less.

Also, regarding the long set up time, this is confusion too?!? It looks rather simple, turn the handles to open the pop out and release then set up your mattress. Same goes for putting back up. What takes so long and is so difficult?

I never found it "difficult" but it sure is a PITA, especially when it's raining. :M Funny how my wife was always the one who was inside the camper setting up while it was I who was outside fooling with the tenting. :W

[95jersey]

Just something to point out. I only have storage room for a smaller trailer 22ft max. That is one reason I looked at the foldout (hybrid), to gain more floor and sleeping space for overall length. I'd love a 30 footer, but it is not going to happen.

Please help me understand the humidity/water issue you are all referring to? Why would people put tarps over an already waterproof canvas tent? Also how does water droplets fall on you in sleep? Does it form on the inside or seep in from the outside?

Also, regarding the long set up time, this is confusion too?!? It looks rather simple, turn the handles to open the pop out and release then set up your mattress. Same goes for putting back up. What takes so long and is so difficult?

Thanks everyone, newbie confused.

[RedRocket204]

This is such a long-shot for it being important to you but thought it should be mentioned anyway.

For an example, if you were to want to go to Yellowstone and stay Fishing Bridge RV Park, you would be required to have a hard sided trailer.

FISHING BRIDGE RV PARK wrote:
Specifics About the Fishing Bridge RV Park
The Fishing Bridge RV Park provides approximately 340 sites designated for hard sided recreational vehicles only. This is because the RV park is located in bear habitat.

http://www.yellowstonenationalparklodges.com/lodging/camping/fishing-bridge-rv-park/


Other than that, I would also be in agreement with the previous posters. Hard sided TT for me for all the same reasons.

[bid_time]

samhain7 wrote:

DutchmenSport wrote:

I've seen many, many folks have to cover their tent ends with tarps, plastic, all kinds of different covers to help prevent this.

I see this for almost every hybrid I have come across...

Must be a regional thing. I never covered my tent ends in the 12 years I owned a hybrid and I can't remember seeing more than 1 or 2 other people do it. The only time we got condensation inside was when it was cold outside and warm inside (October) and never to the extent it was dripping on us. A quick wipe with a towel took care of it. Way overblown in my experience.

[SoundGuy]

Hybrid trailers aren't just "expandable" travel trailers but an entirely different animal. If you want one you want to sleep under tenting and are willing to put up with all the vagaries of dealing with tenting. I've been there, done that, actually against my will as my wife at the time really preferred (for the same reasons you're citing) the hybrid version of an RVision travel trailer that was otherwise identical. We had it just two seasons and traded it in on a triple bunk bed travel trailer which we should have purchased in the first place. To be sure there are hard core hybrid fans out there ... but I wouldn't be one of them. 😞

BTW, since you say you're a newbie I have to ask - what are you intending to use as a tow vehicle? Hint - that's as important if not more important than the particular trailer you end up purchasing. 😉

[the_bear_II]

There are twwo drawbacks to the TT with foldouts.
1. Security....it's easy to cut through the tent material. So if you will be away from the TT you'll need to close up the foldouts each time.

2. Cold & Heat- The tent material doesn't offer much in the way of insulation. Your heater and AC will have to work harder.

I would only consider a hard side trailer. And would look at larger used units for the best value. Most people take good care of their RVs you can find great barely used units. Larger RVs offer more space in the living areas and bathrooms. With the right tow vehicle and hitch setup it's no difference between towing a 19 or 30 footer other than allowing more room for turns.

[samhain7]

DutchmenSport wrote:

I've seen many, many folks have to cover their tent ends with tarps, plastic, all kinds of different covers to help prevent this.

I see this for almost every hybrid I have come across...

[DutchmenSport]

I suppose you'll get different opinions on your questions, but the decision to go with tent ends or not, is really a personal choice.

If you have been a tent camper in the past, you will fall into one of 2 categories when purchasing a TT with tent ends:

1. You will hate having to deal tent fabric, wet fabric, mold, mildew, and the pain the neck closing up shop when it rains. (yea, this really sucks!) ... same as a pop-up.

2. You will really LOVE the tent ends, because you have the advantage of the hard roof over the trailer, and still have the feel of tent camping, except you don't have to sleep on the ground.

If you have never experienced tent camping and/or pop-up camping, then you will probably REALLY enjoy the tent end trailer (hybrid) a lot.... for a while ... until you set up or take down in the rain a few times, and then you'll be rethinking your decision and my find yourself wanting to trade sooner than you had originally anticipated.

Like a tent, you can expect humidity and water droplets to form on the tent ends when you sleep. The colder is its outside, or in rain, the faster and more they form. And like a tent, don't touch the sides! Those drops will fall you you! So in your sleep, you rub up against them or kick them with your feet and you get a small shower. (condensation you know).

I've seen many, many folks have to cover their tent ends with tarps, plastic, all kinds of different covers to help prevent this. As with any fabric, insulation value will be NILL! If you plan to winter camp, or even late Fall or early Spring, heating will be costly, if the furnace can keep up at all.

Here again, you have to understand, I'm a former tent camper (for 30 years) and then a pop-up camper for 6 years. So my perspective on tent ends is not very favorable. I vote for the hard sided trailer. Especially for setting up and taking down in the rain.

Water is a tent trailer's enemy! Trust me.

[Jebby14]

the expandable fold outs you are talking about if I understand are hybrid trailers. Their pros are they get more space without much more weight. the trailer in general will be lighter/unit of open space than a travel trailer.

they are loved by some but not by me. to me the extra setup time and the fact that I now have canvas to care for (cant put away wet or dirty) is a big no. also they wont keep sound out like a hard sided trailer. they can be heated and cooled but it takes a bit more and humidity can be an issue. canvas has its place but to me its not on a travel trailer. if I wanted to deal with canvas I would get a popup that gives me a ton of space for the weight and is easy to pull and store. just my 2c good luck with whichever you choose. all are likely far better than the my old girl

[95jersey]

Also, another question. I see some nice used trailers that fall into this price range and even lower. For example the dealer has a 2014 version of one of these, that is a few thousand cheaper in mint condition. My concern is that it only comes with a 90 day warranty. The new comes with a 1 year warranty.

What is the value of a 1 year warranty? Would you recommend saving $2000-$3000 on a used unit and only getting 90 day warranty? Or is spending the extra money to get new with full warranty worth it?