Newbie: Towing TT w/ 2008 Toyota Sequoia

[stevevalwa]

The camping bug bit my wife over the summer so we decided to attend the RV Expo in Boston over the past weekend. She fell in love with the 2018 Rockwood 2706WS and after two days of looking at smaller options, we decided the Rockwood fits our family best as the 3 kids are growing fast. I remember looking in my Sequoia's owners manual before the show for the towing capacity and all I remembered was 9000 lbs. Although seeing the GVWR of 8800 lbs for the TT scared me, I convinced myself the Sequoia can handle it as I wouldn't tow with potable water. I obviously should have done more due diligence... So after spending the morning researching towing with the Sequoia, and how to calculate the weights using the TV & TT ratings, the main takeaway from the research is that Toyota has downgraded the max towing capacity of this TV to ~7600lbs applying a new standard (J2807). This has been well documented in other posts. So I've come up with the following calculations for my set-up:



So, sanity check time:

1.) I made an assumption on my hitch weight based on Rockwood's publicized 804 lbs assuming they got that number using the TT's GVWR. Is that reasonable or should I have just used the 804# number?
2.) I did purchase a WD hitch but I don't know the specifics (yet). Do these really weight a few hundred lbs? If so, I definitely need to include that in the calcs.
3.) For the experienced towers/campers that actually weigh their rigs, is 950 lbs. of dry cargo even a reasonable number for a TT this big? I would assume we have to pack incredibly light... and that may be a challenge knowing my wife.
4.) What other thoughts do you have besides the obvious I need to upgrade my tow vehicle? Will do so in time.

[Terryallan]

As all know. I am a great fan of 1500, and F150 trucks, and they tow GREAT when you keep them inside their weight limits. YOU are over that limit.

You are in 2500, or F250 range. For that TT, You IMOP will need a socalled 3/4 ton truck

[BurbMan]

stevevalwa wrote:
Or are you guys saying that because the hitch, propane, batteries, etc. are so far forward on the TT, it's likely to bump that hitch weight ratio number up closer to 15%?

Maybe....it depends on the floorplan of the TT and where the storage is. Yes, propane and batteries add almost 1:1 on hitch weight because, well, they sit on the hitch. If you have a rear kitchen and lots of storage for stuff in the rear, weight behind the axles actually reduces hitch weight. You can manage hitch weight by how you load the trailer, but too light and you get sway. Toy haulers that have rear garages can have 2000+ hitch weights with no toys in the garage, they are designed to be balanced with a load in the rear.

Our previous trailer was a Sunnybrook that had 4 bunks in the rear. It was constructed with a huge basement under the bunk area that was the full width of the trailer and 8'long from the back bumper forward. I thought this was great and loaded it to the gills with toys, lawn furniture, BBQs, etc etc. The problem was it lightened the tongue so much on a 34' TT it would sway over 45 mph. Bought the Hensley and problem solved.

[handye9]

Here's a calculator that you can put in your own numbers and see where you are at.

Your Sequoia numbers 6000 curb weight and 7300 GVWR indicate 1300 lb payload.

You're WD hitch will weigh about 100 lbs, unless it is a hensley or propride, then it will be more.

The average load of "stuff" people put in their trailers, is about 1000 lbs. Bigger trailer = more stuff.

Average tongue / hitch weight is 12 - 13 percent of loaded trailer weight. Depending on how you load, it go to 15 percent. Note !!! Tongue / hitch weight is not a constant number. It fluctuates up and down during every trip. Trailer holding tanks can have a significant impact on tongue weight. Tanks installed in front of the trailer axles, add weight on the tongue. Tanks behind the axles, subtract from tongue weight.

During a camping trip, my tongue weight can be anywhere between 975 and 1200 lbs. My loaded trailer weight is around 7400.

[travelnman]

Go ahead trade it for a Tundra or the new Ford Expedition if you got the $$$
No use putting the dog in danger but I did see a leading sports figure a year
ago pulling a TT like yours with a Ford Explorer and wait there is more ...
there were five people in the Explorer. Everything was new and he got from
Chicago to Fort Collins Colorado, I don't know if he got back but he said the
salesmen said he could do it but he appreciated my comments anyhow.

He moved ever day because the black water tank was full around evening after
all those people donated. I saw him leave with the TV Antenna up I wonder if the antenna made it.

[stevevalwa]

Thanks for all the responses. I had a feeling I may be making a bad assumption with the tongue weight. So the hitch weight number Rockwood posts is likely coupled to the UVW, giving a more reasonable 12.1% ratio. If that holds, I would definitely have to tow with the SUV empty. I weigh 260, leaving a max tongue weight of 1230-260=970. At 12.1%, max trailer load = 8016
Did I over simplify that? I will definitely heed the advice of the recommended WD hitches. Or are you guys saying that because the hitch, propane, batteries, etc. are so far forward on the TT, it's likely to bump that hitch weight ratio number up closer to 15%? Makes sense if I think about it from a COG standpoint. Assuming 15%, Same calc as above, that leaves only 6467lbs for trailer load. I definitely see the problem I have here. Downgrading TT at this point is probably a no go with the wife. The answer will have to be looking into the brother in laws F250 in the short term and buying a very used dedicated TV in the near term...

[jim1521]

BurbMan wrote:
Couple thoughts...first off, don't feel bad about your mistake, I made the same mistake as did a lot of other folks here.

You can manage the length with good sway control. Don't let the dealer give you a **** hitch as part of their "hitch package", get either the Reese dual-cam setup or spring for a premium hitch like the Hensley or ProPride. The problem with the premium hitches is that they are heavy, which exacerbates your weight problems.

On to the weight...you're gonna be overweight no matter how you slice it. One thing you can do NOW is pack up the Toyota with the family and camping gear and head to a scale. Most moving companies and recycling centers have scales and they will let you weigh for $10 or so. Find out how much the Sequoia weighs fully loaded, then you can see how much you have left for tongue weight vs GVWR.

If you go ahead and buy this trailer, then I would plan your first trip at the closest CG you can find, maybe 30 mins away. See how it tows, and also take this opportunity to head back to the scales with the trailer attached.

Since you will have had the loaded truck already weighed, get one weight for the whole rig with truck and trailer on the scale, then weigh again with just the truck. The difference between the first truck weight and the second will give you the tongue weight, the difference between the truck and trailer vs just the truck, adding in the tongue weight, gives you the loaded trailer weight.

Your other option is to go back to the dealer and cut a deal on a different unit. The dealer is unlikely to let you back out of the deal altogether, may be flexible and let you buy a smaller unit.

If you move ahead with the purchase, be prepared to upgrade the tow vehicle before you get any real use out of the trailer. The numbers you posted have all the makings of a white knuckle trip for any distance on the interstate. The good news is that since you will have already weighed the loaded trailer, you will have accurate info to go truck shopping. I would say this is a job for a 250/2500 crew cab.

In general terms, you will add approximately 1500 lbs of "stuff" to a trailer that size, not including propane, batteries, or potable water.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.

BurbMan did a good job outlining your challenges, and steps to take. One additional step I would take is if you do get the trailer, take the whole loaded crew - truck, family, dogs - and fully loaded trailer to the nearest CAT scale. They're all over the place so there shouldn't be one too far away from you, and get accurate weights. Only then will you have the real picture.

CAT Scale locations nationwide

[RinconVTR]

wowens79 wrote:
I found the post I was thinking about.

Sequoia towing at max for over 5,000 miles - comfortably

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29357665/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1

I still question the payload, but this thread might give you some good info.

Hey, that's my thread!

OP, this trailer is starting out with a very heavy hitch weight for our Sequoia. My Grand Design 2800bh runs around 900lbs WITH the Hensley hitch and WDH bars attached to the trailer. (I've scaled as high as 960lbs)

There's not much chance you'll keep that Rockwood under 1000lbs and thus its really out of the picture...or the Sequoia is out...as would be most 1/2 ton trucks you'll find if you run the same spread sheet you put together...with real weights.

Keep in mind tires and tire PSI is critical and I would never ever recommend anyone tow something this large with 1/2 SUV (or even truck for that matter) without a Hensley or Propride hitch.

Don't let anyone tell you the Hensley and Propride are band-aids or over kill. They will make your TT tow like a 5th wheel. No joke.

I would go so far as saying they are required for short wheel base SUV's and I give my highest recommendation for any 1/2 ton towing anything over 25ft.

It took me a long time to finally throw down and buy one, and I'll never go back.

Add to that, I have lost count on how many 1/2 ton owners and even a couple 3/4 ton owners switching to the Hensley or Propride have thanked me over the years for the advice in just 3-4 years. It saved them tens of thousands, from not buying a bigger truck and 5th wheel trailer.

[2012Coleman]

As posted above, you are grossly under estimating tongue weight. A guesstimate would be 13% of TT gross weight which works out to 1144 lbs in your case. Doubtful your receiver is rated that high - better look.

You also don't take WDH setup weight into account - that's at least another 90-100lbs. Payload will be exceeded before the mythical tow capacity number - if it's 1230 as you state, then after you hook up, you will have less than 100 lbs left. Do you weigh less that thet?

High walled TT's push a lot of wind at highway speeds. Prepare for white knuckle syndrome as Your engine and transmission struggle to come up to speed in calm conditions. Be prepared to feel like your driving a waterbed - especially when a semi passes you.

And having to scrape the bottom of the barrel by putting everyone else in another vehicle is pitiful. Maybe have them follow with the hazard lights flashing?

What are the ratings on the tires? Are they passenger car tires?

Good luck.

[wowens79]

I found the post I was thinking about.

Sequoia towing at max for over 5,000 miles - comfortably

https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29357665/srt/pa/pging/1/page/1

I still question the payload, but this thread might give you some good info.

[Old-Biscuit]

Your calculations for 'tongue' weight is off a bit and so are your Axle weights (curb/base numbers)
Course you are using published numbers in your calculations which are NOT real numbers ------they are AVG for Base Model

The 804# published weight is DRY weight based on the DRY trailer weight of 6646# which is slightly over 12% ratio

Using 7600# MAX weight and 12% your tongue weight will be closer to 920#
Your Toyota Rear Axle only has 1380# (RAWR minus published 'curb' weight weight).
920# of that is going to tongue weight leaving only 460# before reaching MAX RAWR

460# minus 100# for WDH......now you are down to 360# which is most likely even less due to ACTUAL Vehicle weights at a Scale.

Your trailer UVW of 6646# is also a DRY Base model weight (published number---not actual scaled number)
Less than a 1000# capacity before reaching your 7600# goal weight

You are OVER Trailered OR actually UNDER Trucked........

So IF you have this trailer then best thing you can do right NOW.........use two vehicles and pack as much as possible in 2nd vehicle and keep trailer weight down to 7000# total
Still going to be UNDER trucked

[wowens79]

The hitch weight isn't going to include the batteries and propane tanks. I think you will probably have to much trailer for the Sequoia.

Search this forum, I'm pretty sure I read some posts from a guy towing a similar sized TT with a sequoia, and he seemed ok with it. He had some pretty good details about towing with it. I'm pretty sure it was on here.

[SoundGuy]

bikendan wrote:
OP posted every spec for his Sequoia, except payload capacity as equipped. The tongue weight will probably be at or over 1000lbs, loaded for camping. I doubt if that leaves much left over.

No question - with gear for a family of 5 this trailer will easily weigh in excess of 8000 lbs loaded & ready to camp, 13% to 14% gross tongue weight will easily hit 1100 lbs, if not more. No way his Sequoia has sufficient payload capacity.

[bikendan]

OP posted every spec for his Sequoia, except payload capacity as equipped.
The tongue weight will probably be at or over 1000lbs, loaded for camping. I doubt if that leaves much left over.

[SoundGuy]

stevevalwa wrote:
What other thoughts do you have besides the obvious I need to upgrade my tow vehicle? Will do so in time.

Unfortunately you have a significant problem now, not "in time". Take a look at my own trailer towing calculations here and here. This is towing a 19' trailer averaging 4800 lbs loaded & ready to camp, average gross tongue weight ~ 620 lbs, with a 5.3L V8 Silverado, GVWR 7000 lbs, GCWR 15,000 lbs ... yet I'm almost completely out of payload capacity. :E Your situation is SO much worse, your Sequoia isn't even remotely close to being suitable for towing a trailer of this size. FWIW, these calculations aren't any different than what one can do manually with a calculator, the worksheet just does it for you. If you'd like an .xls copy PM me with an email addy that accepts attachments and I'll forward a copy you can plug your own numbers into. Believe it though, you won't like the results. 😉

[BurbMan]

Couple thoughts...first off, don't feel bad about your mistake, I made the same mistake as did a lot of other folks here.

You can manage the length with good sway control. Don't let the dealer give you a **** hitch as part of their "hitch package", get either the Reese dual-cam setup or spring for a premium hitch like the Hensley or ProPride. The problem with the premium hitches is that they are heavy, which exacerbates your weight problems.

On to the weight...you're gonna be overweight no matter how you slice it. One thing you can do NOW is pack up the Toyota with the family and camping gear and head to a scale. Most moving companies and recycling centers have scales and they will let you weigh for $10 or so. Find out how much the Sequoia weighs fully loaded, then you can see how much you have left for tongue weight vs GVWR.

If you go ahead and buy this trailer, then I would plan your first trip at the closest CG you can find, maybe 30 mins away. See how it tows, and also take this opportunity to head back to the scales with the trailer attached.

Since you will have had the loaded truck already weighed, get one weight for the whole rig with truck and trailer on the scale, then weigh again with just the truck. The difference between the first truck weight and the second will give you the tongue weight, the difference between the truck and trailer vs just the truck, adding in the tongue weight, gives you the loaded trailer weight.

Your other option is to go back to the dealer and cut a deal on a different unit. The dealer is unlikely to let you back out of the deal altogether, may be flexible and let you buy a smaller unit.

If you move ahead with the purchase, be prepared to upgrade the tow vehicle before you get any real use out of the trailer. The numbers you posted have all the makings of a white knuckle trip for any distance on the interstate. The good news is that since you will have already weighed the loaded trailer, you will have accurate info to go truck shopping. I would say this is a job for a 250/2500 crew cab.

In general terms, you will add approximately 1500 lbs of "stuff" to a trailer that size, not including propane, batteries, or potable water.

Good luck and let us know what you decide.