I am starting this post because I don't want to hijack the other NL delam thread.The NL/Bigfoot "water proof" clam shell design is especially appealing here in the Pacific northwest. I seriously considered both brands when we were shopping for a camper 13 years ago.I remember finding a NL about an hour north of us. In the course of looking it over, I climbed up on the ladder to take a peak at the roof.Holes. Holes. Holes. The ladder and "luggage" rack attached to the roof in 7 or 8 places. There was a plumbing vent, a refrigerator vent, roof vent, skylite, escape hatch, and, of course, front, rear, and side clearance lights. All holes appeared to be caulked with Dicor or something similar.What's the advantage of a water proof design/structure if the water proof surface is pierced in 20 places and relies on conventional caulk to keep the rain out?

I share this observation and concern. I have owned three Bigfoots. The 9.6 camper I ordered new from the factory. I specifically ordered no luggage rack, no ladder, no antenna - no unnecessary roof penetrations. It turned out to be a requirement to have the ladder, since the roof vent was the fire escape. You cannot avoid some things like vents. I did this because my previous Bigfoot 5th wheel had numerous gratuitous roof penetrations. The ones for the awning eventually leaked, rotting some of the paneling and wood stiffeners embedded in the wall. My current camper (BF10.4) I found new (but sitting at a dealer for 4 years). It has an antenna, roof rack, ladder, awning; counting them up there must be 40 or 50 screws through the roof that need not have been there. Another issue is the quality of the vents. The plumbing vents in particular (but also some of the others) are very pliable plastic. Screwing down the flanges simply squeezes the sealant out of the joint under the screw, bowing the flange. And afterward they flop about so easily there is really no way to seal them long term. The sealing rim of these things needs to be stiff enough to put to pressure on the sealant, otherwise you must use an adhesive sealant and a lot of Faith. On the fiberglass top of a BF or NL, it is feasible - and not that much work - to simply remove the unnecessary junk from the roof and patch the holes by fiberglassing them over. On the roof, the patches don't have to look good. I've been thinking about doing that at least for my awning, which I never use, and involves at least 20 holes.

One could argue there are less seams/holes with a clam shell design. As noted, clamshell does not mean "no holes"...so they must be maintained as any camper.You might also infer that I if they do leak any moisture can be trapped inside the walls which are not easily accessible as other types of construction.My opinion is both NL and BF are high quality units and are probably less likely to leak than other types of construction. If we did not need the room of a slide out we would likely own one of these right now.DW really like the NL's last time we were TC shopping. Who knows? Maybe when we are just "2" (plus dog) we will look again...Right now really happy with our current unit...and the added room of a slide. B

A lot of boats are built in two halves also , split in two halves at the rub rail . With fewer penetrations at below the water line , but there are some , sealed with caulk that is for continuous immersion . Good design for TC`s , just need good maintenance to go along with it

Yes, NL & BF still have the potential to leak due to penetrations thorough the clamshell. And I too would tend to minimize the number of penetrations through the most susceptible surface, the roof. Unfortunately, I got my BF off a dealer's lot after the original company went bankrupt and so had to take it as it sat ... with a ladder, roof rack, AC, refrigerator vent, 2 plumbing vents, 2 fantastic fans, and two skylights. However, these are items all TC tend to have and the fiberglass clamshell design does eliminate the seam along all the edges between the roof, sides, front, rear, and bottom and their leak potential. I hear all the time about the problem with wing rot on such units but have never heard of this occurring on a NL or BF.

whizbang wrote:... What's the advantage of a water proof design/structure if the water proof surface is pierced in 20 places and relies on conventional caulk to keep the rain out?Have you not noticed the potential leak areas all around the outside of non-clam shell designed TCs? There is a seam where the roof meets the sides, where the roof meets the back of the TC, seams where the sides meet the bottom, seams where the top meets the front cap seams where the front cap meets the bottom. I say on a 11.5 foot TC, there is about about 70 feet more seams for leaks.Also consider there is no other roof as solid as the molded fiberglass. Not easily damaged.Wayne

Observation on the NL/Bigfoot Clamshell Design | Good Sam Community

Reddog1
Explorer II
Dec 29, 2015
rhode trip wrote:
Reddog1 wrote:
I think it is much less expensive and time consuming to simply stay out of the trees.
Wayne

Ha,ha. I'm in New England...that's like telling you to stay out of the sun! :B
Well you should at least crank the Batwing antenna down, I did not. :B

Wayne
rhode_trip
Explorer
Dec 29, 2015
Reddog1 wrote:
I think it is much less expensive and time consuming to simply stay out of the trees.
Wayne

Ha,ha. I'm in New England...that's like telling you to stay out of the sun! :B
covered_wagon
Explorer
Dec 29, 2015
dunegoon1 wrote:
I had a problem with a leak around the sewer vent on my Bigfoot. The ABS pipe exits the roof and there was a gap around it. The vent assembly consists of a cone that is screwed down to the roof fiberglass and a silly cap that can easily be knocked off. When the cap is gone, rain enters and fills the cone until it can run down along the vent pipe. My solution was to clean all of the moss and water out of the cone, dry it all out, and then spray foam the gap around the vent pipe. I thought about filling the whole cone with foam sealer, but decided instead to drill a drain hole in the cone at the low corner. I can always fill the entire cone later if needed. I recently found a more rugged vent cap that is held in with spring wire. The second vent, for the gray water venting, was also modified likewise.

Oh. The water leak ruined the wood that supported the jack at the rear corner. But that is another story.

I added an ABS straight coupling (cut off the stop so it would slide/ sleeve down) to increase the size of the pipe with the size hole drilled thru the roof and caulked.

For pipe protection I covered each one with West Marine SS. clamshell vent covers.

Not that my way is better just the way I did it.
dunegoon1
Explorer
Dec 29, 2015
I had a problem with a leak around the sewer vent on my Bigfoot. The ABS pipe exits the roof and there was a gap around it. The vent assembly consists of a cone that is screwed down to the roof fiberglass and a silly cap that can easily be knocked off. When the cap is gone, rain enters and fills the cone until it can run down along the vent pipe. My solution was to clean all of the moss and water out of the cone, dry it all out, and then spray foam the gap around the vent pipe. I thought about filling the whole cone with foam sealer, but decided instead to drill a drain hole in the cone at the low corner. I can always fill the entire cone later if needed. I recently found a more rugged vent cap that is held in with spring wire. The second vent, for the gray water venting, was also modified likewise.

Oh. The water leak ruined the wood that supported the jack at the rear corner. But that is another story.
Reddog1
Explorer II
Dec 29, 2015
I think it is much less expensive and time consuming to simply stay out of the trees.

How can I or anyone else make an excuse on my ripping off my Batwing? If you leave it up, and driving off, does that not fall under stupid? You can't fix that, but must repair it. Then again, maybe a manufacture flaw in design.

Wayne
covered_wagon
Explorer
Dec 29, 2015
rhode trip wrote:
covered wagon wrote:
I did not like all the roof penetrations also, so I removed the luggage rack, which would have torn up the roof fiberglass if I ever hit a branch, sealed up the holes and removed the plastic pipe vents by putting steel protectors over the pipe vents. I bit more aerodynamic too I guess.

I ripped the luggage rack off on a tree branch, so I filled the holes with Marine-Tex and was done. I had problems with the forward vent breaking on branches after removing the luggage rack that offered some protection, so I made an aluminum limb-riser to protect it. I haven't had a problem since.

Good idea and good work too.:)
HMS_Beagle
Explorer
Dec 28, 2015
The fiberglass roof is also a more stable surface to caulk against than many alternatives. On a fiberglass boat, removing and recaulking all the deck hardware every 10 years would be considered a very aggressive preventative maintenance schedule. Many go 15 or 20 years without much attention. The typical RV recommendation is to pour Dicor over it once a year. My BF camper purchased new in 1998 was sold in 2012 without a leak and no resealing since new. The one I have now is 8 years old, no leaks, no resealing from new.
jimh406
Explorer III
Dec 28, 2015
Reddog1 wrote:
My roof was installed over 27 years ago. Does anyone think a rubber type will survive that long? It has never leaked and only recaulked 3 or 4 times.

Yes, I do. I think the weak point is actually the caulk.

In any case, it's hard to compare when the weather in each area is quite a bit different.
Downwindtracke1
Explorer
Dec 28, 2015
I would rate construction methods as 1) fiberglass clamshell,2) Styrofoam sandwich with aluminum framing, 3) Styrofoam sandwich with wood framing, and 4) the good? old stick and tin. Ease of repair would have a very different order. I shied away from a BF in my price range as interior repair, yes, the roof can leak, would be too much work.
Reddog1
Explorer II
Dec 28, 2015
I have never ripped off anything from my roof except a Batwing. It does a lousy job tree trimming. I have a scratch in the side of my Bigfoot from a limb on a very narrow road. Had my Bigfoot been anything other than molded fiberglass, it would have been ripped open and require major repair work.

Fact is, a big enough limb can clear the top off any TC. The difference the molded fiberglass is a lot tougher than any other roof on TC that I am aware of. My roof was installed over 27 years ago. Does anyone think a rubber type will survive that long? It has never leaked and only recaulked 3 or 4 times.

Wayne