Over loaded pickup

[BenK]

Wonder how often this occurs...think often



https://fordauthority.com/2020/10/not-smart-ford-f-150-owner-exceeds-their-trucks-payload-capacity-b...

[JRscooby]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
"Check your arithmetic;
With the 5th wheel set over the axle, that 6000 lbs would not change the front axle weight, because air ride keeps ride height the same.
Question; When you unhook, do you crank (or power) the nose up until most/all weight is off truck, or do you crank 'til legs solid on ground, then dump air?"

Not much to check I simply add right about 6k to the truck, of that at least 150# is added to the front axle. My hitch is set either 2 or 4" front of centerline of the rear axle.

I can't dump air. I go into setting and select tire jack mode so the truck does not try to move while raising RV. Once I see the hitch head start to raise slightly from the hitch base I stop and unlock handle non open it and pull away. The truck goes off tire jack mode once I start it again.

Cummins12V98 wrote:


6k pin making the rear weigh 9,750# and the front 5,460# totaling 10,310#.

9750
+5460
=15210

I never heard of "jack mode". Sounds like it would work as well as a dump valve. May not happen with pick-up/single axle but with a screw, too much, or too little air pressure can cause lack of traction

[Cummins12V98]

"Check your arithmetic;
With the 5th wheel set over the axle, that 6000 lbs would not change the front axle weight, because air ride keeps ride height the same.
Question; When you unhook, do you crank (or power) the nose up until most/all weight is off truck, or do you crank 'til legs solid on ground, then dump air?"

Not much to check I simply add right about 6k to the truck, of that at least 150# is added to the front axle. My hitch is set either 2 or 4" front of centerline of the rear axle.

I can't dump air. I go into setting and select tire jack mode so the truck does not try to move while raising RV. Once I see the hitch head start to raise slightly from the hitch base I stop and unlock handle non open it and pull away. The truck goes off tire jack mode once I start it again.

[Cummins12V98]

bguy wrote:
The biggest problem I see is he has no weight left on the front axle.

I am willing to bet I could lift up at the front bumper and see air under the tires.

[mkirsch]

ppine wrote:
The world is full of stupid people. I don't know where they have all come from.

They were always there. The Internet didn't exist to immortalize them.

[BenK]

If he ever gets up to freeway speed...the leading edge of those insulation boards will try to lift...

To then snap in half at the strap induced stress raiser

To then fly off and the other half following...then the rest of that stack ditto...

Common sense is so uncommon...

[JRscooby]

blt2ski wrote:


Scooby,
My IHC almost always has weight added to FA with a load. Typically 5900-6000 empty front. 5600-5900 rear depending on if diesel tank has 5 or 50 gals in it.
Ad 14000 lb getting me to registered 26k. I'm at 7509-8000 on front, rear in the 17-18.5k realm. Generally 8k and 18k Fr vs Rear. About 2000 added to front, 12000 to rear. In par with body builder specs of 85-15% to 90-10% rear to front wieght distribution.
Of course final weights depend on what I'm hauling, ie rock will usually load all forward of rear axle. So bussed to from axle. If light wieght like bar/sawdust etc, a bit more to rear, as bed is filled to 15 CYD capacity vs 4-5 yds of rock.

Yes, pickup beds are nearly centered over axle, working beds add weight to front axle. Around here, most people setting a F750 up to haul material will put a 10 ft long bed, hinged right behind the rear of spring hangers. They mostly limit payload to about 10 tons. The old 750 I rescued to deliver little loads was set up like many in mid '60s, a 12 ft bed and a owner added front axle as tag. I removed the tag axle. I got stopped with almost 13 tons on. Weight watchers are not much for letting drivers read the scale if read legal. But because I did not get tickets for it, I know I was not over 7200 lbs on either front tire, or over 23,400 lbs on drive. ($100 to lawyer, raise plates to cover load, got fine down to $35)

Air suspension is nice, because crank up psi, level to slight up on rear. Very little wieght if at all is then taken off the front. If anything, added to the front.

The last company I was leased to had 3+ company trucks per owner operators. Often company drivers did not understand the issue of pulling from under a trailer with air in suspension. Many of the trailers had air connections mounted low. As 5th wheel clears trailer, weight off, the bag shove back up, break off gladhands. Of course, the leveling valve drops truck back down, so no problem for that driver. Most learned to dump air between the time you crank dollies and pull out.
This relates to RVs, or at least the 5th wheel haulers with air suspension because of the chance of damage when the load is suddenly removed.

[bguy]

The biggest problem I see is he has no weight left on the front axle.

[blt2ski]

Air suspension is nice, because crank up psi, level to slight up on rear. Very little wieght if at all is then taken off the front. If anything, added to the front.

Scooby,
My IHC almost always has weight added to FA with a load. Typically 5900-6000 empty front. 5600-5900 rear depending on if diesel tank has 5 or 50 gals in it.
Ad 14000 lb getting me to registered 26k. I'm at 7509-8000 on front, rear in the 17-18.5k realm. Generally 8k and 18k Fr vs Rear. About 2000 added to front, 12000 to rear. In par with body builder specs of 85-15% to 90-10% rear to front wieght distribution.
Of course final weights depend on what I'm hauling, ie rock will usually load all forward of rear axle. So bussed to from axle. If light wieght like bar/sawdust etc, a bit more to rear, as bed is filled to 15 CYD capacity vs 4-5 yds of rock.

At the end, one can not trust one set of numbers, formulas to guess front to rear distribution of wieght, as other factors come into play, ie actual weight ratings of springs, how literal stiff they are, rear overhang, CA length, cab configuration, how high the rear is frame wise, vs does the frame go tail down loaded vs level or up,

Being as I do not know the multipliers to figure that out, other than thru experience, I can tell you it can vary and depend what a given weight load will do to a given chassis truck.

Just like one person that lists the weight off of front axle is the percentage of rear overhang divide by WB. That formula is too high to a point, the correct at one point. Then actual is higher than formula states in higher hitch wieghts for a ball mount setup. There is no factor for rear suspension settling, or the spring rating. Good ball park, not a formula I would want to place my life on it being correct.

Marty

[JRscooby]

Cummins12V98 wrote:
OK I just have to show you all what a real load looks like.

LOL

6k pin making the rear weigh 9,750# and the front 5,460# totaling 10,310#. All that and the truck sets perfectly level as it should. Kinda cool it sets the same without a load.

Check your arithmetic;
With the 5th wheel set over the axle, that 6000 lbs would not change the front axle weight, because air ride keeps ride height the same.
Question; When you unhook, do you crank (or power) the nose up until most/all weight is off truck, or do you crank 'til legs solid on ground, then dump air?

[Cummins12V98]

OK I just have to show you all what a real load looks like.

6k pin making the rear weigh 9,750# and the front 5,460# totaling 10,310#. All that and the truck sets perfectly level as it should. Kinda cool it sets the same without a load.

[JRscooby]

blt2ski wrote:
Scooby,
Can't agree with heavier springs ride higher, "BUT same amount of wieght off front axle" pickups are tailbhigh to start with. As you load, the frame goes to level, to tail down.

You are right. As the rear goes down in relation to front, more weight will be added to rear. Just like raising the tongue of a trailer reduces the tongue weight.

The more tail down you go, more wieght is taken off the front axle. Add 2000 lbs to the back. A 4000 lb spring will square more, taking more wieght off the FA. A 6000 less, 8500 less yet, a 16500 like my MDT, less yet.

But even if the suspension was rigid, adding weight behind the axle will take weight off the front. The same weight centered over RA will not change steering much* This is why loading the lumber to stick out over the cab would level the truck, make it haul the overload much better.

*See a plane vertical thru center of axle. Imagine the sheetrock and 'foam stacked on truck without rear going down, see where that plane is? Now let truck settle like it would in real world. That same vertical plane, compared to first will show a wedge. Any weight in that wedge has moved from in front of to behind the axle.

It's real apparent when I put my equipment trailers 1500 lbs of hitch wieght on different grawr but same WB etc. From 300-400 lbs off a crew cab 172" wb with 6400 lb springs, change out to 8500 lb springs, 200-300, this is a 96 sw . My 05 dw crew cab, 8500 lb springs, also 200-300 lbs. IHC, all of 60-100 lbs.
Spring capacity does effect how much come off the front loading, depending upon where said CG is etc.

Marty

I can remember boss and I moving king pin and 5th wheel trying to get steer axle below 18,000 while keeping drive and tag legal. Finally gave up, called tire man to take 11,400 rated tires of my semi-retired dumptruck for the trip.

[ShinerBock]

Me Again wrote:
Here is what a little over 3.2K+ looks like between the rear axle and tailgate with my 3500 SRW. Pallet of 45 71 lb wall blocks.

You got me beat by about 200 lbs. This was about 3k worth of corn and protein for the deer lease. Although there is about a hundred or so lbs worth of tools in the Ram Boxes and the back seat was loaded up with guns, gear, food, and beer for a weeks trip.

[MFL]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Here is what a little over 3.2K+ looks like between the rear axle and tailgate with my 3500 SRW. Pallet of 45 71 lb wall blocks.

Show off!!!

Ricksons/tires, air bags...same as DRW...could throw on another 3K no problem!

Jerry

[bikendan]

ppine wrote:
Common sense seems to be going out the window in this country. Young people seem to be the most clueless. They have never taken shop class, they can't change a tire.

I remember a conversation with a guy that works for the State Parks Dept. He said he could find people that have a good understanding of natural resources, but they have no mechanical knowledge at all. They tear up the equipment like ATVs, they get stuck all the time. They always need help.

This was happening at my fire department, in my last few years.
Firefighters HAVE to be mechanically inclined but this younger generation often has never heard of "rightly tightly, lefty loosey". They have trouble figuring out how to attach a supply hose to a hydrant or discharge on the engine. And forget anything with its own engine. It took forever, to teach many of them, how to operate anything mechanical.
Of course, many didn't make through the academy or probation thankfully.