Forum Discussion
Ron3rd wrote:
agesilaus wrote:
Frankly as a retired chemist I'd be more likely to believe this if they explained what miracle additive they are using. Otherwise it sounds like marketing BS. DEF is plain and simple 35% Urea and I don't know what 'deposits they were referring to. Searching google for 'def deposits' gets zero hits.
True, and from what I've read, there is no good/better/best or "premium" DEF. It's kind of like buying isopropyl alcohol at the drugstore; all brands are the same, it either meets a standard or it doesn't. That's why I buy the Walmart house brand for $7.88 for 2.5 gallons. Peak at Walmart is $11.88. Pump DEF is even cheaper but that's very inconvenient for me.
I've been using the same wallyworld DEF for over a year with ZERO problems.
It's nothing more than a marketing ploy.
If someone wants to waste their hard earned $$ on this new "Platinum" DEF that's their Choice.
That's where the saying " a fool and his money are soon parted" comes in handy.
Any DEF that meets the specs will do the job expected of it.
That's the same reason that even "house brand" oils that meet the spec for your vehicle work just as well as expensive name brand oil.Ron3rd wrote:
agesilaus wrote:
Frankly as a retired chemist I'd be more likely to believe this if they explained what miracle additive they are using. Otherwise it sounds like marketing BS. DEF is plain and simple 35% Urea and I don't know what 'deposits they were referring to. Searching google for 'def deposits' gets zero hits.
True, and from what I've read, there is no good/better/best or "premium" DEF. It's kind of like buying isopropyl alcohol at the drugstore; all brands are the same, it either meets a standard or it doesn't. That's why I buy the Walmart house brand for $7.88 for 2.5 gallons. Peak at Walmart is $11.88. Pump DEF is even cheaper but that's very inconvenient for me.
You can also "exceeds standards" and report "meets standards".agesilaus wrote:
Frankly as a retired chemist I'd be more likely to believe this if they explained what miracle additive they are using. Otherwise it sounds like marketing BS. DEF is plain and simple 35% Urea and I don't know what 'deposits they were referring to. Searching google for 'def deposits' gets zero hits.
True, and from what I've read, there is no good/better/best or "premium" DEF. It's kind of like buying isopropyl alcohol at the drugstore; all brands are the same, it either meets a standard or it doesn't. That's why I buy the Walmart house brand for $7.88 for 2.5 gallons. Peak at Walmart is $11.88. Pump DEF is even cheaper but that's very inconvenient for me.ktmrfs wrote:
Learjet wrote:
LIKE2BUILD wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
Here's a video on this new DEF. Fast forward to 8:44 for some better details on the product. They cleared up a couple of questions and that this product will not reduce existing build up and the shelf life is the same as the current Blue DEF.
Link
Thanks for the link. The project leader called it an 'additive package'. I have a hard time believing that since the SDS for this product has NO difference from the old product. Again, this is NOT POSSIBLE because any chemical in the mixture it must be shown on the SDS. They only claim 33% Urea and 67% water on the SDS which means there is nothing else.
KJ
Items that are trade secretes can be withheld
not really an accurate statement. Law says
It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).
so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.
therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.
I am starting to think it isn't what is added, but what is removed!
Last box of Peak Blue DEF (Not Platinum) that it had a statement on the side "Guaranteed Pure". This might also be the difference between Peak and house brands is the amount of impurity's in the solution. I will stick with Peak for few extra $$.Learjet wrote:
LIKE2BUILD wrote:
ktmrfs wrote:
.....Law says
It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).
so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.
therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.
So, curiosity got the best of me and I emailed Peak directly and asked them. Below is the response:PEAK wrote:
Please note that the chemicals used in the additive package in Blue DEF Platinum are proprietary.
In addition, while Safety Data Sheets often list most of the chemical constituents that make up a particular product. They are not intended to be a comprehensive list of ingredients.
Only the hazardous ingredients that are present above certain thresholds are required to be listed.
Sincerely,
PEAK Technical Product Support
So they are stating they aren't required to list the proprietary products in the SDS.
KJ
So my statement was correct :)
Yep. I guess I'm just too accustomed to working in a lab where the reagents and mixtures we purchase are 'normal' lab grade and therefore have all components listed on the SDS regardless if they are considered hazardous or benign. I thought at minimum, even if it's proprietary, that they had to claim the % of the mixture, but I guess not.LIKE2BUILD wrote:
ktmrfs wrote:
.....Law says
It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).
so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.
therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.
So, curiosity got the best of me and I emailed Peak directly and asked them. Below is the response:PEAK wrote:
Please note that the chemicals used in the additive package in Blue DEF Platinum are proprietary.
In addition, while Safety Data Sheets often list most of the chemical constituents that make up a particular product. They are not intended to be a comprehensive list of ingredients.
Only the hazardous ingredients that are present above certain thresholds are required to be listed.
Sincerely,
PEAK Technical Product Support
So they are stating they aren't required to list the proprietary products in the SDS.
KJ
So my statement was correct :)ktmrfs wrote:
.....Law says
It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).
so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.
therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.
So, curiosity got the best of me and I emailed Peak directly and asked them. Below is the response:PEAK wrote:
Please note that the chemicals used in the additive package in Blue DEF Platinum are proprietary.
In addition, while Safety Data Sheets often list most of the chemical constituents that make up a particular product. They are not intended to be a comprehensive list of ingredients.
Only the hazardous ingredients that are present above certain thresholds are required to be listed.
Sincerely,
PEAK Technical Product Support
So they are stating they aren't required to list the proprietary products in the SDS.
KJ- All marketing BS. No different than when a truck make says they are "best in class" which is useless to most buyers.
Learjet wrote:
LIKE2BUILD wrote:
FishOnOne wrote:
Here's a video on this new DEF. Fast forward to 8:44 for some better details on the product. They cleared up a couple of questions and that this product will not reduce existing build up and the shelf life is the same as the current Blue DEF.
Link
Thanks for the link. The project leader called it an 'additive package'. I have a hard time believing that since the SDS for this product has NO difference from the old product. Again, this is NOT POSSIBLE because any chemical in the mixture it must be shown on the SDS. They only claim 33% Urea and 67% water on the SDS which means there is nothing else.
KJ
Items that are trade secretes can be withheld
not really an accurate statement. Law says
It is not appropriate to leave the concentration percentage (or identity of the ingredient(s)) blank in Section 3 of the SDS. Where a trade secret is claimed in accordance with § 1910.1200(i), a statement that the specific chemical identity and/or exact percentage (concentration) of composition has been withheld as a trade secret is required in Section 3 of the SDS. See 1910.1200(i)(1)(iii).
so if there are "trade secret" ingredients a statement must be made. and the SDS for this"platinum DEF" contains no such statement.
therefore ALL indgredients must be listed, and all they list are urea and water.agesilaus wrote:
Frankly as a retired chemist I'd be more likely to believe this if they explained what miracle additive they are using. Otherwise it sounds like marketing BS. DEF is plain and simple 35% Urea and I don't know what 'deposits they were referring to. Searching google for 'def deposits' gets zero hits.
The magic ingredient is PLATINUM! Says right on the label! Why else whould it cost more for urea and water? lol
Peak Blue Platinum DEF, with Advanced Snake Oil Technology!
