Question: Pop-Up vs Hard-side TC's (firsthand experience?)

[DiverDan80]

First off, I want to thank everyone for responding to my first/last post! Now a new question for all you TC gurus!

A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 Super Duty 7.3 XLT 4x4 longbed (non-dually), with stock heavy duty helper springs; am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper, preferably w/ toilet & shower (even if the shower is just an outside shower), weighing at no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable my wife an I to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement-king) and still tow my zodiac dive boat.

Hard-side (HS) VS Pop-Up (PU) TC's Pros and Cons (?)

First, I am getting the feeling that this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with First-Hand Experience hauling/using BOTH. HS'ers often make comments like, "It's just a tent in the back of your truck!" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and PU'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between a HS & PU) are:

Hard-Sides (HS)
-Stay Warmer/Cooler
-Heavier Dry Weight (generally)
-More 'Top Heavy', w/ more Sway/roll issues, etc.
-Less Versatile (for off road/non-campground camping)
-Usually Cheaper to Buy Used than PU's
-More 'Standard' Creature Comforts
-Quieter Inside and Easier to 'Stealth' Camp/rest/eat/etc.

Pop-Ups (PU)
-Better for Gas Mileage
-Lighter Dry Weight, Lower Center of Gravity & Lower Profile
-Get Colder/Hotter Quicker
-Can be Obtained with all the 'Comforts' of HS, however w/weights approaching small HS's
-Are Harder to Find and are More Expensive to Buy Used than HS
-Easier to Drive and Store
-More of the 'Real Camping' Experience (i.e., closer to nature)

Thanks!

[SidecarFlip]

realter wrote:

bcbouy wrote:
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.

I believe Northstar now has an electric roof as standard equipment.

I believe you are right. The RT system is gaining popularity.

[SidecarFlip]

bcbouy wrote:
i'll stick to the proven heco system.the reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properlythe reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properly.i'm never level.so maybe it's not as good as i'd thought.

In the past year (last summer and fall) using the RT electric lift system, I never found that to be true and I was, many times, not square or level, in fact a couple times I had to reposition the unit to get the fridge to operate properly. I carry a 12" torpedo level with me and set my camper within 1/2 bubble at all times for the fridge to operate properly. That always entails dropping the jack legs and squaring the camper accordingly.

I have to disagree with your statement... "the reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properly"... from personal experience. That is not true.

I have read of a few instances where the limit switches were not set properly causing a corrked up or crooked down condition but if the limits are set correctly, the roof raises and lowers perfectly, every time.

[bcbouy]

i'll stick to the proven heco system.the reico titan is proving to be very sketchy,and needs to be almost level to work properly.i'm never level.so maybe it's not as good as i'd thought.

[realter]

bcbouy wrote:
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.

I believe Northstar now has an electric roof as standard equipment.

[Jack_Hart]

cewillis wrote:

Jack Hart wrote:
both Hallmark and Outfitter have basements which should be a consideration for extreme cold weather camping.

Are you sure of that? Hallmark certainly did NOT have a basement when I was looking (but that was 10 years ago). From a quick look at their website, the Cuchara and Ute models don't seem to have a basement.
I agree that both are high quality -- but I wanted the Outfitter basement, with bigger tanks.

You may be right. I read somewhere that Hallmark was introducing a basement model in 2007, but I haven't been able to find any evidence that it actually happened. My outfitter has batteries, tanks, heating ducts, plumbing and wiring in the basement. One advantage to a basement is that it makes the entry door a little taller.

[bcbouy]

i had an old caveman camper i shared with my bil.hated it.dark,smelly,heavy.pop ups are the way to go for us.we camp and fish in the back country only,and we are only limited in our bravery to go waay off the grid,and our favourite fishing areas are a 4 hour dash over the coastal mountain range,so low profile really helps.we average just around 100 days of camping a year.the northstar p/u was tailor made for our type of camping.

[SidecarFlip]

bcbouy wrote:
close to double the price,and all i've done is add 2 better deep cycles.on the upside,they hold their resale value up here.i sold my old 1989 sunlite pop up for what i paid for it the day i put it on craigslist,after owning it for 3 years,but i did change out the old vinyl.

Double the price puts you in hard side territory. If I was going to use my camper many. many days every year and span 4 seasons, I'd be investing that much. I'm not.

I am going to Alaska next summer with my Palomino. Should be a fun trip

I was always happy with the Lance 915 but it really limits you as to where you can go. Just too high and the Cg was too high as well.

I have a friend in Minnesota that has a Sunlite. He's like me. uses his a few times a year for fishing trips.

[bcbouy]

close to double the price,and all i've done is add 2 better deep cycles.on the upside,they hold their resale value up here.i sold my old 1989 sunlite pop up for what i paid for it the day i put it on craigslist,after owning it for 3 years,but i did change out the old vinyl.

[SidecarFlip]

bcbouy wrote:
we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.

The 1500 has an east west bunk and I prefer it over the north south arrangement because I sleep on a CPAP machine at night and I use the outlet on the front wall below the bunk to power my machine with the machine sitting on the kitchen counter. I converted that outlet to a 110 volt non shore powered outlet running from a Xantrex 1000 watt PSW inverter. Of course that also predicated going from one battery to a pair and building a custom battery box to contain both.

I bet your Northstar was appreciably more money than my Palomino was. I looked at value received versus cost besides build and convenience. I'm retired and on a fixed income.

[cewillis]

Jack Hart wrote:
both Hallmark and Outfitter have basements which should be a consideration for extreme cold weather camping.

Are you sure of that? Hallmark certainly did NOT have a basement when I was looking (but that was 10 years ago). From a quick look at their website, the Cuchara and Ute models don't seem to have a basement.
I agree that both are high quality -- but I wanted the Outfitter basement, with bigger tanks.

[bcbouy]

we almost went with the 1250.i really like that electric roof and wish my northstar had it.the east west bed was a deal breaker though.plus the northstar was able to be ordered exactly how we wanted it.

[SidecarFlip]

I don't regret buying the SS1500 at all. It's not and never will be a 4 season camper and I would never expect a pop up to be that but it's a solid 3 season camper The thing I notice the most besides almost no drop in fuel mileage (2mpg) empty versus the camper on is how it handles in the wind. With the slab sided Lance, I always knew it was in the bed, especially in cross winds, the Palomino, I don't feel it at all. Even my wife can drive the truck on the Interstate without feeling intimidated. I do get tired of driving. I posted a picture of it in the camper picture thread ....

Page 131 about half way down....

[burningman]

Holy cow... you're the first person who's ever made me kinda want a pop-up!

[SidecarFlip]

Reading all this stuff is interesting. For years I had a Lance 915 that was pretty loaded up and I went everywhere with it, everywhere on pavement or in campgrounds that is.

Then, the wife and I bought property in Northern Michigan accessable via seasonal road and I took one look at our new camping and hunting property and I knew the Lance had to go. For one, it was too high to negotiate a seasonal road with trees and too heavy to drive off road, even though I have a long bed diesel 4x4, I knew I'd get in trouble real fast so I put it up for sale (still have it) and bought a Palomino SS1500.

The older Palomino's got a bad rap and deserved it. You had to manually crank up the roof, you could not open the rear door without raising the roof and the rear door leaked in the rain, like a sieve. The fit and finish was poor and over quality was lacking but, it was cheap.

That is all gone now. The roof is electric push button. Unlatch 4 latches, push a button and the roof extends. Open the one piece solid door (with glass tinted window) and get in. Fit and finish is first class and you can even get air conditioning if you want it (I cannot see it as the sides all around open up to screens with all kinds of ventilation plus it comes with a powered roof fan). 4 cubic foot Dometic fridge with freezer, 3 way, hot water heater, outside shower furnace, comfortable queen sized bunk with a convertible dinette. I got mine with a full wet bath for my wife. I would have preferred a cassette toilet but it wasn't available at the time. Oops, forgot to add, 2 burner cook top and single bowl sink....

You can access everything in the unit (but the upper bunk) without raising the roof and that includes the toilet, fridge and dinette (for those quick rest area sandwich stops) All the interior lights as well as the exterior lights are LED and the grey and black dumps are easily accessable on the drivers side.

Very comfortable, plenty of room for 2 or 3, up and down in literally seconds and roadability is excellent compared to a hardside plus the weight is manageable. 1900 dry, 2350 wet. Don't even know it's back there unless I look in the mirror or glance at the dash (it comes with a wireless rear view camera setup for watching your backside.)

I'm really happy for $13,000.00. and it fits in my garage as well, a huge plus. Campers last almost forever when stored inside when not in use. It's the keeping them outside in the elements that causes issues and deterioration.

Is a perfect fit for my wife and I.