Question: Pop-Up vs Hard-side TC's (firsthand experience?)

[DiverDan80]

First off, I want to thank everyone for responding to my first/last post! Now a new question for all you TC gurus!

A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 Super Duty 7.3 XLT 4x4 longbed (non-dually), with stock heavy duty helper springs; am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper, preferably w/ toilet & shower (even if the shower is just an outside shower), weighing at no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable my wife an I to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement-king) and still tow my zodiac dive boat.

Hard-side (HS) VS Pop-Up (PU) TC's Pros and Cons (?)

First, I am getting the feeling that this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with First-Hand Experience hauling/using BOTH. HS'ers often make comments like, "It's just a tent in the back of your truck!" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and PU'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between a HS & PU) are:

Hard-Sides (HS)
-Stay Warmer/Cooler
-Heavier Dry Weight (generally)
-More 'Top Heavy', w/ more Sway/roll issues, etc.
-Less Versatile (for off road/non-campground camping)
-Usually Cheaper to Buy Used than PU's
-More 'Standard' Creature Comforts
-Quieter Inside and Easier to 'Stealth' Camp/rest/eat/etc.

Pop-Ups (PU)
-Better for Gas Mileage
-Lighter Dry Weight, Lower Center of Gravity & Lower Profile
-Get Colder/Hotter Quicker
-Can be Obtained with all the 'Comforts' of HS, however w/weights approaching small HS's
-Are Harder to Find and are More Expensive to Buy Used than HS
-Easier to Drive and Store
-More of the 'Real Camping' Experience (i.e., closer to nature)

Thanks!

[Jack_Hart]

Northstar, Outfitter, Hallmark, and Alaskan are the ones worth considering. Alaskan is going to be hard to find, expensive, and a little old fashioned in materials and construction with only a 15 amp system and no inside shower. Northstar is wood frame, non basement construction, but should be the easiest to find used. Hallmark construction is state-of-the-art, composite frame with options for interior material. Outfitter is also composite/aluminum frame construction and both Hallmark and Outfitter have basements which should be a consideration for extreme cold weather camping. There's really not much difference between Hallmark and Outfitter, particularly shopping used, where the options you get are not negotiable. Another camper to consider if light weight is important is the Four-Wheel Grandby. I personally would choose Hallmark or Outfitter, but it really comes down to what's available within budget and driving range.

[LabMan1945]

Northstar 850 is a great choice. I'm on my second one and have had NO problems (other than operator error or accident). Great company, great service. Over 150K on them since 2008.
Grant

[realter]

Hallmark and Outfitter real similar, even built by the same family a few miles apart.

I'm thinking Alaskan is the best of both worlds, a hard sided pop up.

[realter]

Northstar x2.

[thedavidzoo]

Have you looked into Northstar campers? They have some PU models also.

[DiverDan80]

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Very informative everybody. After much research, and consulting the wife, we have decided to go with a PU WITH a toilet & shower. The wife even said she is OK with me spending MORE $$ to get exactly what we want 🙂 Needs to be less than, or right around, 2K dry weight...and I know I may have a road trip from CA to find one.

Now...Is there any consensus as to which 'larger' PU is the highest-quality/best made/longest lasting? I am looking to buy used and pay less than 15K cash (I still have some mods to do on the truck). Here is what I have so far based on my research of stats and opinion:

- Palomino: Great on price, low on quality. Campers start breaking down quickly, but generally accepted as OK for an 'intro' PU/TC camper. Older Palomino's (up to 2011) better built than current PU's ($9K-$17K New, $4K-$6K Used)

- Jayco: (do they even make these any more?) Cheaper than Northstar, but higher quality than Palomino...harder to find with toilet & shower ($3.5K-$7K Used)

- Northstart: Decent quality, decent price, not quit as nice or well thought out as Outfitters, but much better than Palomino ($21K-$25K New, $8K-$13K Used)

- Alaskan: The classic 'Cadillac' PU camper, great campers, long lasting, high quality/value, hold there value, and hell on the wallet, even when used. Camper heaver than other PU's, due to it not being a 'soft-side'. Also less options than some (no indoor shower, etc.) ($27K-$30K New, $19K-$25K Used)

- Four Wheel: Surprisingly lightweight and compact/low-profile, these PU's are designed for taking off-road while still having most PU options available. Unfortunately, these PU as so compact that storage / cooking / living space is even more limited that other PU's. High-quality construction means these PU's hold there value ($18K-$28K New, hard to find used)

- Outfitter: High quality, and higher price than most. Quality campers that can withstand some real camping ($28K-$38K New, $9K-$14K Used)

- Hallmark: High quality, high priced lightweight campers. Well thought out. ($33K-$40K New, $14K-$17K Used)

Thanks!

[tmartin000]

When I had my pop-up, 5 huge issues came to mind....

1. NOISE NOISE NOISE
2. wet fabric to deal with
3. cold as ****!
4. no place to put anything
5. bull-pucky bathrooms

Nope, no advantages worth bragging about.

Buy a cheap hard-side. 100% sure you'll thank me later.

[JimBollman]

DriverDan, I think you pretty much have the pro/cons figured out. You need to decide what tradeoffs you want to make. I have owned 3 popups and one hardside. Currently popup and will probably stay with popups. I like the lower height and don't need or want all the extras that usually comes with a hardside. I leave it on year around and even removed the jacks. I have close to the setup you have but my 2000 F250 is only 2wd. The 7.3l hardly knows it is back there.

The one extra to add to your list is if you don't have or want air conditioning the popup has much better ventilation for natural cooling. We have a Maxxair fan and seldom miss AC. I can run the Maxxair for a long time on battery, air conditioning requires AC, either a hookup or a generator. Lots of places I camp have no hookups and I hate listening to a generator.

[hedgehopper]

The Apex was dry (well, condensation is a bit of an issue and water started seeping through the sewing holes after a couple of days).

DW waterproofed the stitching of our Phoenix popup shortly after we started using it,and we never had a problem with seepage. Condensation? Yes, that was a problem in cold and/or wet weather.

[hedgehopper]

bcbouy wrote:
the biggest difference for me? 360 degree view and you can open every window in a pop up.no need for a/c.you can order them with top cabinets if you want them,but they will partially block 2 of your 10 windows.as for wet fabric.???don't know what your apex was made from but my northstar shrugs off water no problem.

The view is much dependent on the camper(s) involved. With our Phoenix popup, we could see very little when sitting at the dinette. With our Northern Lite HS, the view is much better. As far as not needing A/C, that would depend on where you camp. We used our A/C in the popup far more than the furnace. Wet fabric was never a problem.

[ctilsie242]

Was looking at a pop-up with a family member. Both of us bumped our heads on the door coming in. Not a show-stopper, but showed we are not used to them. My concern here in Texas is mold/mildew with the plastic.

I think I'm going to go for a HS if I go for a TC, mainly because for a good chunk of the year, the TC will be dropped onto a campsite for a renaissance faire, so the fewer things that can go wrong, the better.

[WVbassmistress]

I had a pop up, now a HS.
We fish night tournaments some and the noise during the day when we were trying to sleep was a little bit of a factor in the soft side. Also, the light that I loved from the canvas sides were not a plus during those times.

[jefe_4x4]

Jack, nice ladder, but you need to cut the folding bar off. It's a bit lighter that way.
jefe

[hedgehopper]

I just recalled another advantage of our popup over our hardside: It did not need to be winterized. Whenever we returned from a trip, we drained all the water from the fresh-water tank. That was it. There was no black tank. The "gray tank" was a five-gallon bucket that sat on the ground and got emptied before we left our campspot.

[whizbang]

I've had two pop-ups and one hard side. The lower height pop-ups both handled much better on rough roads. The hard side had more creature comforts.

I disagree with the comments about stealth camping in a pop-up. I've stealth "camped" on several occasions with the top DOWN --- simply sleeping on the dinette. With the top down, my pop-up still has access to the frig, cupboards, and porta potti. The stove, cab over bed and sink are unusable. I can't make coffee in the morning, but, since I camped in a Starbucks parking lot twice, coffee was not an issue.

BTW --- I find the pop-ups plenty warm in sub-freezing weather, and, I like all the screened windows in warmer months.

I think the right camper for you is the one you find that "feels" right and fits your budget.