First off, I want to thank everyone for responding to my first/last post! Now a new question for all you TC gurus! A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 Super Duty 7.3 XLT 4x4 longbed (non-dually), with stock heavy duty helper springs; am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper, preferably w/ toilet & shower (even if the shower is just an outside shower), weighing at no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable my wife an I to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement-king) and still tow my zodiac dive boat.Hard-side (HS) VS Pop-Up (PU) TC's Pros and Cons (?)First, I am getting the feeling that this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with First-Hand Experience hauling/using BOTH. HS'ers often make comments like, "It's just a tent in the back of your truck!" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and PU'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between a HS & PU) are:Hard-Sides (HS) -Stay Warmer/Cooler -Heavier Dry Weight (generally) -More 'Top Heavy', w/ more Sway/roll issues, etc. -Less Versatile (for off road/non-campground camping) -Usually Cheaper to Buy Used than PU's -More 'Standard' Creature Comforts -Quieter Inside and Easier to 'Stealth' Camp/rest/eat/etc.Pop-Ups (PU) -Better for Gas Mileage -Lighter Dry Weight, Lower Center of Gravity & Lower Profile -Get Colder/Hotter Quicker -Can be Obtained with all the 'Comforts' of HS, however w/weights approaching small HS's -Are Harder to Find and are More Expensive to Buy Used than HS -Easier to Drive and Store -More of the 'Real Camping' Experience (i.e., closer to nature) Thanks!

Hard-Sides -Warmer/cooler -Heavier (generally) -More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc. -Less versatile -Cheaper used than pop-ups Pop-Ups -Better Gas mileage -Lighter -Get colder/hotter quicker -Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side -Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sidesI have owned both, an Alaskan for ten years and two hard sides since around the mid '80s. Both have their place. If you do a lot of 4x4 off road driving the pop up will likely work better. Otherwise, the limitations of the pop up need to be taken into consideration as to basic amenities like showers, larger refers, more storage, etc. typically found in the hard side campers. Both can be very expensive and both can be quite heavy, sometimes surprisingly heavy for pop ups. If you are into expedition overland off road stuff the pop up would definitely be my choice. Otherwise I would look at a hard side. One thing I found with my Alaskan was the depreciation after ten years was only $500; of course, the new ones kept getting more and more expensive that kept the price of a good used unit from much depreciation. I have not enjoyed that kind of limited depreciation on my two hardsides. I carried a small boat on the roof rack of my Alaskan. Extreme care would have been needed if I carried the boat on my hard side campers as to height. If you are into parking garages neither will work. If you want to tow something and can live without slides and lots of amenities the pop up might be the better option. I found drivability with the pop up to be easier than either hard side. My second hard side was just under eleven feet and basically required a dually. Most pop ups can be easily carried on a single rear wheel one ton or maybe a gas engine heavy duty three quarter ton.

I have had 2 pop-up and am on my second hard top... so I have a little familiarity with both. Pop-ups (PU) are not always lighter when compared to the smaller-ish hardsides (HS.) Sure, the larger slides out models will most certainly be heavier, but the pop-ups do handle a little better due to the lower profile.The HS do keep out both heat and cold better, but I was able to stay plenty warm in the PU during my hunting trips when done properly. If by "less versatile" on the HS's you mean less able to get into places, well that is true, but how off road will you go? I took my PU into some real deep back woods areas of the Rocky Mountains and I cannot get there with my current set-up, I feel (generally) that most TC'ers here do not go really off raoding like I did... there are some who do but you need to ask yourself: will you be going deep into off road situations where the PU will make that much of a difference.I like both and if I could I would have one of each... there is nothing like camping in the hills next to a stream and hearing the rushing waters at night or coyotes howling in the distance. Yes, the HS's keep out natures sounds.For me I like the even simpler aspects of the HS by not needing to crank it up. I find a spot, level it, open a beer and I am camping. The HS also gives a better advantage of "stealth" camping. With a PU in the up position it sort of gives it away that someone in inside for the night. With an non-slide HS then it is more like "parking incognito."

The one thing I really disliked about my pop-up camper I owned was the inability to ever stealth camper or do anything without drawing attention. In a normal truck camper you can pull into any Walmart, Casino parking lot, rest stop.... wherever.... and get out, and use the bathroom, take a nap, have a shower... no problem. But you can't do that with a pop-up. So to me, it depends on your lifestyle. If you plan to use it for weekends into the bushes then a pop up wins but if you plan to do long road trips then a pop up camper just doesn't work IMO.

DiverDan80 wrote:First off, I wanted to thank everyone for responding to my first/last post! Now a new question for all you TC gurus! A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 SD 7.3 XLT 4x4 long bed (non-dually) with heavy duty overload springs and am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper (preferably with toilet & shower) no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable me to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement king) and tow my zodiac dive boat.Hard-side VS Pop-Up TC's Pros and Cons (?)First, I am getting this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with first-hand experience hauling/using BOTH. Hard-siders make comments like, "It's a tent in the back of your truck" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and pop-up'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between the two types) are:Hard-Sides -Warmer/cooler -Heavier (generally) -More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc. -Less versatile -Cheaper used than pop-upsPop-Ups -Better Gas mileage -Lighter -Get colder/hotter quicker -Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side -Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sidesThanks! I have a 2002 Lance 815, bought it new and still have it. When you refer to "light" I guessing you mean weight. The manufacture uses "light" in options up can get as in my Lance 815 just about everything was a option. As far as having a wet bath in a pop-up your going to be almost as heavy as a Lance 815 or a Lance 165s. I bought a hardside because I didn't want to have to raise and low the roof section especially during bad weather. I don't known if your looking for new or used, Lance 815 can only be found used. If you a tall person this camper could be a problem since it has a low profile for a hardside. I'm 5'6" tall and the ceiling is only about 4" higher. The bottom line is what YOU want.Death Valley NP, Ca.Mojave Road Trail,Ca.

I agree with adamboyd and would add that the pop ups are lower which can help a lot in off road driving in forest with low limbs ect.

Question: Pop-Up vs Hard-side TC's (firsthand experience?)

jmtandem
Explorer II
Feb 18, 2017
Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups

Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides

I have owned both, an Alaskan for ten years and two hard sides since around the mid '80s. Both have their place. If you do a lot of 4x4 off road driving the pop up will likely work better. Otherwise, the limitations of the pop up need to be taken into consideration as to basic amenities like showers, larger refers, more storage, etc. typically found in the hard side campers. Both can be very expensive and both can be quite heavy, sometimes surprisingly heavy for pop ups. If you are into expedition overland off road stuff the pop up would definitely be my choice. Otherwise I would look at a hard side. One thing I found with my Alaskan was the depreciation after ten years was only $500; of course, the new ones kept getting more and more expensive that kept the price of a good used unit from much depreciation. I have not enjoyed that kind of limited depreciation on my two hardsides. I carried a small boat on the roof rack of my Alaskan. Extreme care would have been needed if I carried the boat on my hard side campers as to height. If you are into parking garages neither will work. If you want to tow something and can live without slides and lots of amenities the pop up might be the better option. I found drivability with the pop up to be easier than either hard side. My second hard side was just under eleven feet and basically required a dually. Most pop ups can be easily carried on a single rear wheel one ton or maybe a gas engine heavy duty three quarter ton.
d3500ram
Explorer III
Feb 18, 2017
I have had 2 pop-up and am on my second hard top... so I have a little familiarity with both. Pop-ups (PU) are not always lighter when compared to the smaller-ish hardsides (HS.) Sure, the larger slides out models will most certainly be heavier, but the pop-ups do handle a little better due to the lower profile.

The HS do keep out both heat and cold better, but I was able to stay plenty warm in the PU during my hunting trips when done properly. If by "less versatile" on the HS's you mean less able to get into places, well that is true, but how off road will you go? I took my PU into some real deep back woods areas of the Rocky Mountains and I cannot get there with my current set-up, I feel (generally) that most TC'ers here do not go really off raoding like I did... there are some who do but you need to ask yourself: will you be going deep into off road situations where the PU will make that much of a difference.

I like both and if I could I would have one of each... there is nothing like camping in the hills next to a stream and hearing the rushing waters at night or coyotes howling in the distance. Yes, the HS's keep out natures sounds.

For me I like the even simpler aspects of the HS by not needing to crank it up. I find a spot, level it, open a beer and I am camping. The HS also gives a better advantage of "stealth" camping. With a PU in the up position it sort of gives it away that someone in inside for the night. With an non-slide HS then it is more like "parking incognito."
adamboyd
Explorer
Feb 18, 2017
The one thing I really disliked about my pop-up camper I owned was the inability to ever stealth camper or do anything without drawing attention. In a normal truck camper you can pull into any Walmart, Casino parking lot, rest stop.... wherever.... and get out, and use the bathroom, take a nap, have a shower... no problem. But you can't do that with a pop-up. So to me, it depends on your lifestyle. If you plan to use it for weekends into the bushes then a pop up wins but if you plan to do long road trips then a pop up camper just doesn't work IMO.
c_traveler2
Nomad
Feb 18, 2017
DiverDan80 wrote:
First off, I wanted to thank everyone for responding to my first/last post! Now a new question for all you TC gurus!

A little background: I have a 2001 Ford F250 SD 7.3 XLT 4x4 long bed (non-dually) with heavy duty overload springs and am in the process of upgrading my tires for firmer side walls, adding full Stable Load kit, adding Rear Sway bar & replacing front stock sway bar both with Hellwig's Bigwigs, and getting Sumo Springs. My aim is to get get a 'light' camper (preferably with toilet & shower) no more than 2,000 LBS dry, 3,000 loaded. That will enable me to be semi-adventures (i.e, not a pavement king) and tow my zodiac dive boat.

Hard-side VS Pop-Up TC's Pros and Cons (?)

First, I am getting this debate has all the emotions and passions of 'Chevy VS Ford' or "R VS D', but please limit this forum for those with first-hand experience hauling/using BOTH. Hard-siders make comments like, "It's a tent in the back of your truck" (Ummm I don't have a heater, refer, stove/oven, AND bathroom in my tent!) and pop-up'ers say, "Why would ANYONE NOT own a pop-up??". My observations (as I try to decide between the two types) are:

Hard-Sides
-Warmer/cooler
-Heavier (generally)
-More 'top heavy', more sway issues, roll issues, etc.
-Less versatile
-Cheaper used than pop-ups

Pop-Ups
-Better Gas mileage
-Lighter
-Get colder/hotter quicker
-Can be obtained with all the 'comforts' of a hard-side
-Are harder to find and are more expensive used than hard-sides

Thanks!

I have a 2002 Lance 815, bought it new and still have it. When you refer to "light" I guessing you mean weight. The manufacture uses "light" in options up can get as in my Lance 815 just about everything was a option. As far as having a wet bath in a pop-up your going to be almost as heavy as a Lance 815 or a Lance 165s. I bought a hardside because I didn't want to have to raise and low the roof section especially during bad weather. I don't known if your looking for new or used, Lance 815 can only be found used. If you a tall person this camper could be a problem since it has a low profile for a hardside. I'm 5'6" tall and the ceiling is only about 4" higher. The bottom line is what YOU want.

Death Valley NP, Ca.

Mojave Road Trail,Ca.
mi_drew
Explorer
Feb 18, 2017
I agree with adamboyd and would add that the pop ups are lower which can help a lot in off road driving in forest with low limbs ect.
joerg68
Nomad III
Feb 18, 2017
Having had both - a Lance 915 and an Outfitter Apex 8 - I would agree that the one huge difference is that you cannot just stop & go stealth. You need to raise and lower the roof every time even if you just want to fix a sandwich. And the popup was quite noisy compared to the hardwall.

Also the popup did not fare as well in cold and rainy weather. It was dry allright, but still you have the wet fabric, and that is all that separates you from the sometimes not so great outdoors.

When it is warm and dry and nice and sunny, nothing beats the popup :-)
Ranger_Tim
Explorer
Feb 18, 2017
How old are you? If I had been ten or fifteen years younger I would have gone with a Popup. We are generally less adventurous now so we opted for the convenience of a HS and accept its limitations to accessibility. That and the ability to use it as a warm room for astronomy make the HS a winner for us.

Almost ended up in a Northstar PU. Very nice units. Weights were a wash between the Wolf Creek HS and the Northstar PU -- The Northstar would have been much easier to drive. The Wolf Creek is more luxurious.
bcbouy
Explorer
Feb 18, 2017
the biggest difference for me? 360 degree view and you can open every window in a pop up.no need for a/c.you can order them with top cabinets if you want them,but they will partially block 2 of your 10 windows.as for wet fabric.???don't know what your apex was made from but my northstar shrugs off water no problem.
996Pilot
Explorer
Feb 18, 2017
Ranger Tim wrote:
How old are you? If I had been ten or fifteen years younger I would have gone with a Popup. We are generally less adventurous now so we opted for the convenience of a HS and accept its limitations to accessibility. That and the ability to use it as a warm room for astronomy make the HS a winner for us.

Here's were I truly agree. We have an Outfitter Apex 8 (pop-up) and while I love the lower profile, lighter weight and all of the windows, as I get older (DW stays the same age) I'm finding less and less "fun" to climb up/down that uncomfortable ladder (especially in the middle of the night). Also, popping DOWN requires I bring an extra step stool to latch the top after lowering. Lastly, as others have said, when on a road trip, stealth camping is out of the question - I'd say impossible.

For these reasons the DW has had me looking at alternatives (Fiver, motorhome, etc.) and I just can't bring myself to do it. Consequently I think the Apex 8 is getting sold and we'll be looking for something like an AF-865 or small, hardside slide camper --- really soon.

You really have to ask yourself, how much HARD off roading are you looking to do and how often. Compare that to the time spent camping in "more conventional" spots (even mildly off road) and then ask if the drawbacks of the pop-up are worth it for the difference in time spent in either location. BTW - when I was a younger (more adventurous) lad, I used to get my SixPac (hardside) into some pretty tough off road areas in the high Sierra. As I age I find it less desirable to take my $65,000 truck (and Camper) into perilous conditions that put the rig and us at any danger of damage or rescue.

Just my thoughts - I'm sure you'll hear many pros/cons for both.
joerg68
Nomad III
Feb 18, 2017
The Apex was dry (well, condensation is a bit of an issue and water started seeping through the sewing holes after a couple of days). But it is still more of a tent feeling compared to a hardwall, and you are well advised to have everything dried off before you store the camper. That is in Cental Europe, where three days without rain in a row in summer are remarkable ;-)

There are a lot of pros and cons listed above. IMO it really depends on what you want to do with the camper. Like I wrote, when the weather is right, camping in a popup is the best there is - for me.