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RV Accident US 131 in Michigan

T_in_Michigan
Explorer
Explorer






People, just because you can pull it doesn't mean you should. This is ridiculous to think that little Nissan is going to pull that trailer. No weight distribution, nothing.
2000 Chevy Suburban 2500 6L 3.73
2013 Keystone Springdale 297BHRSS
Wife and 3 Boys
Crazy Dog and 2 Cats
57 REPLIES 57

mich800
Explorer
Explorer
bguy wrote:
The only real conclusion here is that the driver lost control. All the rest is conjecture.


Do we? Maybe it was a Google car.

bguy
Explorer
Explorer
The only real conclusion here is that the driver lost control. All the rest is conjecture.
---------------------------------------
2011 Ram 1500 Quad Cab, 4x4, 3.55, HEMI
2009 TL-32BHS Trail-Lite by R-Vision

pasusan
Explorer
Explorer
E&J push'n wind wrote:
Ron Gratz wrote:
E&J push'n wind wrote:
opnspaces wrote:
hddecker wrote:
I let up on the throttle a bit next thing I see in the mirror, backend of the trailer about three feet to the left of center.

Trucks going straight, a little tap to the brake controller switch and the trailer gets back where it belongs.

Sure was happy I had the Hensley Hitch that day.
Did anybody catch this post by hddecker? Not picking on you at all hd, just caught the part that your Hensley let the trailer get out of shape. I thought that supposedly wasn't possible?
I tow with a Hensley too, yeah.., I did catch that but let it go. No, it is not possible unless something is bending or the shear bolts have let go in which case you'll have a mess on your hands. I'd like to hear how that is possible.
I think we should not imply that "hddecker" was seeing things.
It's entirely possible -- especially in a low traction condition as might have happened if you're driving in Canada at Christmas time.

It the trailer tires lose their ability to generate lateral force, there is nothing to prevent the trailer from swinging to the side -- makes no difference whether towing with a HA/PP hitch or a conventional hitch.

When "hddecker" let up on the throttle, the 4-bar linkage might have produced a "bump" event which resulted in the trailer swinging to the side.
Even with no "bump", the trailer still can swing if the tire/pavement friction cannot generate sufficient lateral force.

Ron



Ron, I've read many of your posts and I conceed to you as one who is very knowledgeable on the "workings" of these HA's and PP hitches. My appologies to hddecker as my statement kind'a "called him out" on this one. Even with your explanation Ron I'm still kind'a.., baffeled? In the demonstration Hensley gives in their video, it shows that the Hensley at the trailer end cannot move. However, as an owner of a Hensley, I too am familiar with the "bump" and as I've seen it explained, I do understand that. Hensley will have to perhaps explain that one. Anyway, I do see your point on this.
OMG, the bump again. :R

I do believe the discussion was about a slippery road and the proof of that was all the vehicles *off* the road a bit further on.


This is the important point in Ron's post:
Ron wrote:
It the trailer tires lose their ability to generate lateral force, there is nothing to prevent the trailer from swinging to the side -- makes no difference whether towing with a HA/PP hitch or a conventional hitch.
Although I do believe the word force should be replaced with resistance.


I have seen more than a few tractor trailers jack-knife right in front of me on I-90 here in PA in the winter. Something must have been wrong with their hitches.

Susan & Ben [2004 Roadtrek 170]
href="https://sites.google.com/view/pasusan-trips/home" target="_blank">Trip Pics

Camper_G
Explorer
Explorer
thomasmnile wrote:
dspencer wrote:
I have to go now and buy a Freightliner to pull my 26ft Bunkhouse. :R


Are you sure that will be enough truck...........;)



I laughed at this comment....but seriously..I agree with the other posts. Too many unknowns here and I'd hate to make assumptions. Things can happen quickly. I'd like to think with my years of experience with rv's I have a good combo, set up properly and I also drive conservatively. However things can still happen beyond my control.

That is an armada which is titan based and v8 powered. It's a very capable tow rig. But as many have said we don't know what caused this accident. I can't tell if he was using wd or sc from the pics. If not, that's a major issue contributor in my mind. Especially if he was driving too fast. I just hope they are ok.

I also don't feel it has anything to do with weight bars to tight. The rear end of that dulley was also off the ground in that video referenced prior, and in that video there was a shot close enough that I did not see any wd or sc on that rig. I believe the rear tires were simply leveraged off the ground when the trailer went over...I don't believe there is any way to prevent that regardless of tv or set-up when a tt rolls and stays connected to the tv. It would be interesting to know for sure if the armada was using wd/sc or not....but that will likely remain a mystery.

With all that said it does appear to be a very long 30+ foot rig. The armada is roughly the same length as my expy.with similar capabilities...and there is no way I'd want more than my 23' Layton behind my expy....could I pull a trailer that long with the expy? I'm sure I could go down the road with it....but at what safety margin and for how long? There are enough unknowns out there already with knucklehead drivers and changing road conditions..those are variables/limits I don't wish to explore

Just my thoughts...
2017 Dodge Ram 2500 HD, 4x4, CCSB, 6.4L HEMI, Snow Chief, tow package.,1989 Skyline Layton model 75-2251.

thomasmnile
Explorer
Explorer
dspencer wrote:
I have to go now and buy a Freightliner to pull my 26ft Bunkhouse. :R


Are you sure that will be enough truck...........;)

E_J_push_n_wind
Explorer
Explorer
Ron Gratz wrote:
E&J push'n wind wrote:
opnspaces wrote:
hddecker wrote:
I let up on the throttle a bit next thing I see in the mirror, backend of the trailer about three feet to the left of center.

Trucks going straight, a little tap to the brake controller switch and the trailer gets back where it belongs.

Sure was happy I had the Hensley Hitch that day.
Did anybody catch this post by hddecker? Not picking on you at all hd, just caught the part that your Hensley let the trailer get out of shape. I thought that supposedly wasn't possible?
I tow with a Hensley too, yeah.., I did catch that but let it go. No, it is not possible unless something is bending or the shear bolts have let go in which case you'll have a mess on your hands. I'd like to hear how that is possible.
I think we should not imply that "hddecker" was seeing things.
It's entirely possible -- especially in a low traction condition as might have happened if you're driving in Canada at Christmas time.

It the trailer tires lose their ability to generate lateral force, there is nothing to prevent the trailer from swinging to the side -- makes no difference whether towing with a HA/PP hitch or a conventional hitch.

When "hddecker" let up on the throttle, the 4-bar linkage might have produced a "bump" event which resulted in the trailer swinging to the side.
Even with no "bump", the trailer still can swing if the tire/pavement friction cannot generate sufficient lateral force.

Ron



Ron, I've read many of your posts and I conceed to you as one who is very knowledgeable on the "workings" of these HA's and PP hitches. My appologies to hddecker as my statement kind'a "called him out" on this one. Even with your explanation Ron I'm still kind'a.., baffeled? In the demonstration Hensley gives in their video, it shows that the Hensley at the trailer end cannot move. However, as an owner of a Hensley, I too am familiar with the "bump" and as I've seen it explained, I do understand that. Hensley will have to perhaps explain that one. Anyway, I do see your point on this.
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know much, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Ron_Gratz
Explorer
Explorer
E&J push'n wind wrote:
opnspaces wrote:
hddecker wrote:
I let up on the throttle a bit next thing I see in the mirror, backend of the trailer about three feet to the left of center.

Trucks going straight, a little tap to the brake controller switch and the trailer gets back where it belongs.

Sure was happy I had the Hensley Hitch that day.
Did anybody catch this post by hddecker? Not picking on you at all hd, just caught the part that your Hensley let the trailer get out of shape. I thought that supposedly wasn't possible?
I tow with a Hensley too, yeah.., I did catch that but let it go. No, it is not possible unless something is bending or the shear bolts have let go in which case you'll have a mess on your hands. I'd like to hear how that is possible.
I think we should not imply that "hddecker" was seeing things.
It's entirely possible -- especially in a low traction condition as might have happened if you're driving in Canada at Christmas time.

It the trailer tires lose their ability to generate lateral force, there is nothing to prevent the trailer from swinging to the side -- makes no difference whether towing with a HA/PP hitch or a conventional hitch.

When "hddecker" let up on the throttle, the 4-bar linkage might have produced a "bump" event which resulted in the trailer swinging to the side.
Even with no "bump", the trailer still can swing if the tire/pavement friction cannot generate sufficient lateral force.

Ron

E_J_push_n_wind
Explorer
Explorer
opnspaces wrote:
hddecker wrote:
I let up on the throttle a bit next thing I see in the mirror, backend of the trailer about three feet to the left of center.

Trucks going straight, a little tap to the brake controller switch and the trailer gets back where it belongs.

Sure was happy I had the Hensley Hitch that day.


Did anybody catch this post by hddecker? Not picking on you at all hd, just caught the part that your Hensley let the trailer get out of shape. I thought that supposedly wasn't possible?


I tow with a Hensley too, yeah.., I did catch that but let it go. No, it is not possible unless something is bending or the shear bolts have let go in which case you'll have a mess on your hands. I'd like to hear how that is possible.
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know much, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

myredracer
Explorer II
Explorer II
My top guesses would be:

1. One of those who tow at 80mph the new 65.

2. Judging by rear wheels off the ground, spring bars were WAY too tight.

3. Dealer said it would be fine.

Seriously, I would say the first thing to consider would have to be the size and weight of the TT for that TV.

Maybe a gust of strong wind happened? I can't imagine that Armada being able to handle a strong gust of wind.

We were driving on I-90 in Wa. a few days ago and the wind was strong and gusting. Even though we have a 3/4 ton long wheelbase truck and "only" a 29' TT and a good WDH, I ended up slowing down to 50mph. I thought maybe it was me until we ran into someone at our destination who tows a TT along that same stretch a lot. He said FWs have been known to have been blown over. A semi truck driver told us at a rest stop that even they have trouble there sometimes. That was the only time I've ever had trouble with wind and I can see how an unexpected blast of wind could really catch you off guard. If it doesn't feel right, slow down....

And a few days before that, we had to drive about 10-20 miles on a stretch of highway into Spokane recently repaved with tar & gravel. There were many signs saying DANGER and max 35 mph. I couldn't do more than 40 without feeling like being on ice. Yet everyone else on the road was flying by at high speed, including a few TTs and FWs and were all crossing the center line to pass where the loose gravel still was. I expected to see at least one of the trailers on it's side up ahead, but fortunately didn't.

I don't understand how some say they just reach down to their B/C and snap the trailer back in line. You could be all over the road in the blink of an eye.

dspencer
Explorer
Explorer
gunner65 wrote:
I hope none of the arm-chair quarter backs around here never have an accident we can critique. Hope the family was ok (I only assume from the photo that they were not harmed)


Boy isn't that the truth, the weight police and arm chair quarterbacks are out if full force and not a single one of them has the correct facts. I have to go now and buy a Freightliner to pull my 26ft Bunkhouse. :R

opnspaces
Navigator II
Navigator II
hddecker wrote:
I let up on the throttle a bit next thing I see in the mirror, backend of the trailer about three feet to the left of center.

Trucks going straight, a little tap to the brake controller switch and the trailer gets back where it belongs.

Sure was happy I had the Hensley Hitch that day.


Did anybody catch this post by hddecker? Not picking on you at all hd, just caught the part that your Hensley let the trailer get out of shape. I thought that supposedly wasn't possible?
.
2001 Suburban 4x4. 6.0L, 4.10 3/4 ton **** 2005 Jayco Jay Flight 27BH **** 1986 Coleman Columbia Popup

DHDB
Explorer
Explorer
mileshuff wrote:
A good guess would be that this trailer is a 2010 Keystone Outback. Looks like one of the longer ones. Weight maybe ok as the larger 260FL weighs about 6500lbs dry but thats without options or cargo. My issue would be the length if towing on a windy day or with passing semi's.


The TT has the same roof config of my Outback 301 BQ. TT is 33'+ and 8800lbs max wt. I wouldn't consider towing it with anything less than a 2500. I like the added safety margin of a larger truck because as road conditions change, you never know what is around the next corner. I suppose a properly adjusted Nissan could tow a larger unit like this. It just seems they would be right at the limits of there TV capabilities.

gunner65
Explorer
Explorer
I hope none of the arm-chair quarter backs around here never have an accident we can critique. Hope the family was ok (I only assume from the photo that they were not harmed)

E_J_push_n_wind
Explorer
Explorer
gsmith31 wrote:
ok a one ton dully can do the same thing.http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rv+rollover+crash+i+40+nm&form=VIRE2&first=1#view=detail&mid=BDA277AF68337514F287BDA277AF68337514F287


click

I had an idea this would come up.
Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know much, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon

gsmith31
Explorer
Explorer
ok a one ton dully can do the same thing.http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rv+rollover+crash+i+40+nm&form=VIRE2&first=1#view=detail&mid=BDA277AF68337514F287BDA277AF68337514F287