RV Show Reflections (Do RV Engineers RV?)

[bstar1952]

Went to the San Antonio RV show yesterday and we really enjoyed seeing all the new RVs. Was pleasently surprised at construction quality on most models, not a lot of shoddy construction issues were observed, as in years past, and I looked hard. Jayco is using the new GY Endurance tires on almost all new TT's and 5th Wheels, a great improvement in my opinion. However; here's a few observations that made me scratch my head.
1. Placing sewer connections under slides. Saw this on several different brands. Even the salesmen were scratching their heads when I pointed this out.
2. Water/electric/cable connections. One model we looked at had the electric connection on the rear, city water on the front left, fresh water in the center, sewer flush under a slide and cable on the side near the rear. Seems it would be a PITA setting up.
2. In several models, the sleeper sofa was placed so that it could not be unfolded entirely., dinette booth was in the way. This one was unbelievable.
3. Television placement. One of our favorite floorplans had the TV mounted in an area that could not be seen from the sofa. The sofa was the main seating area in this model - just Wow!
3. Mattresses on bunk beds. Some were so thin, you might as well be sleeping on the plywood base.
4. Wonder where RV manufactures get these no-name brand televisions?
Anyway, was impressed with some of the innovations on a lot of the models. Unfortunately, these innovations come with a higher price tag. Was looking to downsize from my current TT but thinking I'll keep it for a few more years. Yesterday was the 1st day of the show and for a Thursday, there were a lot of folks attending. The RV industry is booming.

[spoon059]

I remember going to RV shows when we were doing research and seeing all kinds of issues with floorplans. They look GREAT on an overhead floorplan graphic, but were terrible in reality.

Cabinet doors that only open halfway before hitting the slideout column.
Drawers the hit the kitchen island.
Televisions that can't be seen from the couch, or better yet, televisions mounted behind the dinette so you can't sit on one side of the table without bumping into the TV.
Lots of campers with no conceivable place for a trashcan.

On a somewhat separate note, can someone explain to me the difference between a cable input and a satellite input? Wouldn't it be easier to simply install Cat6 cable that would except both signals? Am I missing something there?

[soren]

tinstartrvlr wrote:
Heard a tale from someone who did a factory tour. He said the line workers had something like 22 minutes to complete whatever task their station required.

No wonder why things look like they were slapped together.

And then at the end of the line, if there are no OBVIOUS issues, the unit moves on. Then it's up to the dealer to deal with the fallout. And the customer suffers.

All about the bottom line. Crank em out and get em sold.

Sad really.

One of our travel trailers came from a small family owned dealership. The owner told me that one trailer manufacturing plant, from the brand he sold, produced such trash that he would no longer accept units built in that plant. The last straw was when one arrived and his shop foreman found 52 issues to repair, replace, correct, complete, etc.... The owner spoke to the VP in charge of production and told him that he would no longer do business with a division of the company that builds semi-completed, defective trash, it wasn't cost effective for the dealer, and it left the customer with an RV that wasn't going to make then happy in the long run, since who knows what else is wrong with it, that you can't see?

[GrandpaKip]

Electric, city water, sewer, and black tank flush on our Dart are all in a 3’ stretch near the tail. I have seen campground hookups in just about every conceivable location, even water and electric on the passenger side.
The only real inconveniences I’ve found so are the belly coroplast and in order to get to the water heater, the slide has to be out.
All in all, I think Skyline did a pretty good job with design on this model. Maybe that’s why they no longer exist.

[rbpru]

Contrary to popular belief there is a lot of design effort that goes onto TT design. That is why they can sell nearly a half million units a year.

Unfortunate for some, the TT manufacturers put their emphasis on living space.

Very few folk buy a TT based on where the city water hook up is located, how convenient it is too dump the tanks, what kind of roof, windows or studs were used.

If you go to an RV show, the majority of the models are variations on everyone else's models. A new design spread throughout the industry with in a year or two.

Even the so called upscale models have their detractors. But I can guarantee you that five years from now, some folks will be complaining about how they do not build them as solid as they used to back in 2017&18. 🙂 🙂

[bstar1952]

rbpru wrote:
Ever RV campsite i can recall had the electric hook up at the back end of the TT pad. Also, the full hookups were on the passenger side.

Most of the time we only need electricity so any location but the rear of the TT would be inconvenient.

We've been to a few RV Parks out west that have several different water and sewer hook-ups along the length of the site. One owner I talked with said it cost him less than $20 a hook-up and it sure made his customers happy. Only one electrical pedestal though.

[myredracer]

rbpru wrote:
Ever RV campsite i can recall had the electric hook up at the back end of the TT pad. Also, the full hookups were on the passenger side.

For those that may not know, the exact locations of pedestals and power inlets are specified in art. 551 of the NEC. NFPA 1194 covers water, sewer and power locations on a site. Power entry points on an RV must be on the left side within 15' of the rear or can be on the rear on the left side. Site sewer and water connections must be on the left rear half of a site. Not sure what code/standard covers the location of sewer & water hookups on an RV but there must be one.

Problem is, many CGs are old and predate the above requirements by many years and sometimes electrical, sewer & water can be in ridiculously hard to reach locations.

[big_jeff1]

Don't think there's such a thing as an RV Engineer. Pretty sure its the bosses kid drawing something up and they go with it.. 🙂

[rbpru]

Ever RV campsite i can recall had the electric hook up at the back end of the TT pad. Also, the full hookups were on the passenger side.

Most of the time we only need electricity so any location but the rear of the TT would be inconvenient.

[dieseltruckdriv]

ScottG wrote:
No. 2 sounds like Arctic Fox trailers. They keep putting the water fill on the wrong side and the electrical at the extreme back corner.
Why is this the rule rather than the design exception?

I do know for a fact that NW has their engineers use their products and for that reason they are otherwise well thought out - at least on the inside.

As far as quality is concerned, I too have noticed the materials improving. Where they fail is in the execution. Way to sloppy in the construction and way too many stripped screws. This even after years of complaints by owners.

I think the real problem is they aren't assembled by people who use them.

We have been looking for a new camper, and are pretty sure we are going with another 27-5L. Where else should the power go? We almost always boondock, but every hookup place we have ever gone, the power works best at the rear corner, and although we never use water hookups, the water hookups aren't on the wrong side but they could be on the back of the slide.

I am half wondering what you mean, but half wondering if the hookups would be better in other places, so this really is on topic.

[bstar1952]

Lynnmor wrote:

tinstartrvlr wrote:
Heard a tale from someone who did a factory tour. He said the line workers had something like 22 minutes to complete whatever task their station required.

No wonder why things look like they were slapped together.

And then at the end of the line, if there are no OBVIOUS issues, the unit moves on. Then it's up to the dealer to deal with the fallout. And the customer suffers.

All about the bottom line. Crank em out and get em sold.

Sad really.

Folks should do a few tours of RV assembly plants, then they would understand why there are problems. They might find that the idea of these things being designed, engineered or quality controlled is not part of the equation.

Yet we keep buying them and at a record pace.........

[Lynnmor]

tinstartrvlr wrote:
Heard a tale from someone who did a factory tour. He said the line workers had something like 22 minutes to complete whatever task their station required.

No wonder why things look like they were slapped together.

And then at the end of the line, if there are no OBVIOUS issues, the unit moves on. Then it's up to the dealer to deal with the fallout. And the customer suffers.

All about the bottom line. Crank em out and get em sold.

Sad really.

Folks should do a few tours of RV assembly plants, then they would understand why there are problems. They might find that the idea of these things being designed, engineered or quality controlled is not part of the equation.

[Chuck_thehammer]

as for car's... they are designed.. first and foremost .. the production line.. speed... easy connect... special clamps for hoses...

minimum labor of humans..

do not care about after out the door for ease of work/repair.

one Toyota.. to replace a water pump.. complete engine/transmission/sub-frame MUST be removed...
or a Cougar... complete right side drive-line removed to replace an alternator...
a Chrysler ..10 hours labor for a timing belt.. every 60,000 miles


carry on...

[tinstartrvlr]

Heard a tale from someone who did a factory tour. He said the line workers had something like 22 minutes to complete whatever task their station required.

No wonder why things look like they were slapped together.

And then at the end of the line, if there are no OBVIOUS issues, the unit moves on. Then it's up to the dealer to deal with the fallout. And the customer suffers.

All about the bottom line. Crank em out and get em sold.

Sad really.

[ktmrfs]

BadgerMcAdams wrote:
Do RV engineers and designers go RV'ing? Here is a simple test...

Go out and open the hood on your car...How easy is it to get to the spark plugs? The fan belt(s)? Heater and radiator hoses? Could you easily work on the vehicle if needed? The engineers and designers have probably never had to work on a car or truck they designed. Especially one that has had a few miles put on it.

I would imagine it is the same for the RV designers. They probably don't think about the "Where" when it comes to connections, only the "How" to fit every single option in a very limited space.

And if they do RV...Maybe they are Sadists who enjoy making it tough for people to connect up all the devices. Who knows...

well, there are some cars that really are easy to work on. on my two cars, spark plug changes on the V-8 is less than a 30 minute job. Every outside light bulb can be accessed to replace in less than a minute, even the bulbs in the instrument cluster can be accessed and changed in at most 10 minutes. hood is designed to easily be opened to a 90 degree angle. Oil filter doesn't dump over everything, drain plugs for the radiator are accessible including easy to access drain valves on each side of the engine block to completely drain the coolant. service access was definitely designed into the vehicle.

Then there is DIL's mazda. changing a headlight bulb is at least an hours job......

On my Outback trailer, in general I'd say whomever designed the trailer either was a camper or had campers give feedback. One of the few trailers that we could access most anything we needed with the slides in, something hard to do on many trailers.

But then I've seen some others that I wondered if anyone even looked at the plans to see how goofey it was.