So, Sorry for the same stupid topic again, but.. F350 vs 450

[Boatycall]

I've done a lot of thinkin lately, and a lot of readin. I'm considering a 2016 F450. For as much as they want for one, I'm not opposed to asking a stupid question.

Here's what perplexes me, and I need some input -
(all of this pertains to a DRW)
2016 F350 still has a Dana80, F450 has just come out with the Dana 110/111 - a 14k axle.
F350 has 17" tires, F450 now has 19.5's again.
F450 brakes/rotors are a full inch larger in diameter on front and rear.
F450 has over 40k GCVW


Why do both trucks have an identical 14k GVWR?

I've **heard** it's because of insurance, and if it's RATED over 14k it falls into commercial vehicle, but I can't verify.

[recycler]

If your camper weighs #6,500 get a cab chassis truck conversion as they have the capacity to haul that heavy unit is why I got mine originally mine was going to weigh that if not more once it was done.

[Rich1961]

Boaty,

For the load you are hauling, I wouldn't consider anything less than an F450 chassis cab or F550 chassis cab with either a pickup bed installed by an upfitter company or custom flatbed. You've posted that your camper weighs around 6500 pounds, plus you have a heavy trailer you tow behind it. The camper alone is going to make any 350/450 pickup exceed the RAWR, plus you will need suspension improvements to handle the weight. Add the tounge weight of your trailer and you are way over the rear axle weight rating.

Go here to compare the specs of the 350 to 450 pickups. Go here to look at the specs for the 450 Chassis Cab and 550 Chassis Cabs.

The chassis cabs have the rear axle weight capacities you need for that big camper that the pickups just can't deliver. Heavier frame, brakes, springs, wide track front axle, larger fuel tank capacity. Yes, the engine doesn't have the power of the pickup models, but I've driven the F550 Bucket Truck PSD's at work, and they go up the hills on I-80 through the Sierras with no problem, and they weigh about 15 to 16k.

I drove a 2002 F450 Chassis Cab at work for 165,000 miles. Currently drive a 2011 F350 PSD SRW Chassis Cab now that has 94k+ miles on it. Chassis is much stronger than the pickup models and are made for heavy weight.

Rich

[Garry_Gayle]

I think you need to check out the specs for a pickup not a cab and chassis. The brakes are the same diameter for the 250, 350 & 450, you have a higher rear axel gross weight rating with a 350. The 19.5 tires do not last much longer than regular LT tires, not to mention the increased cost of those 19.5s plus a regular tire shop won't work on them. I had an 08 F450 and the tires were wearing out at around 50K (Continentals) then went to Toyo not much difference. Replaced that 08 with a 2015 F350 man what a difference the ride is better, tows better, handles better and I'm towing 20K so unless you need that extra towing capacity forget the 450. You can get the wide track front axel with the tow boss package but I would no recommend it, they follow the truck grooves in the road because they don't quite fit the groove width. Get the 350 DRW with 3:73 gears and you will be a much happier camper. A past 450 owners opinion. 2016 Superduty Specs

[jimh406]

As others have noted, some insurance companies don't like F450s, but that's not the case for mine. Insurance cost is so close to the F350 that it wasn't a consideration for me.

Kayteg1 wrote:
What really annoyed me in F450 was low gearing. That thing screamed at 3000 rpm doing 65 mph.

I have to say that the low gearing has got to be effecting mpg. Mine has 4.30s and never anything close to 3000 rpms. I regularly go over the mountains here in WA. The net effect of the gearing is that going over mountains even in Montana has almost no noticeable effect and the mpg over the mtns is essentially the same as the F350 with a load. I lose on the flatland. I'd prefer something between the 3.73 and the 4.30s.

I can't say the F350 that I had before was like that. After seeing all kinds of rigs with issues going over these same mountains, I was ok to make that tradeoff. Searching for a gear over the mountains burns up a lot of transmissions. If I was mostly on the flat, the tradeoff might not have worked.

As I've noted before, I almost always use the truck for hauling the TC, so empty mpg doesn't affect me much. My TC is heavy, but not the heaviest out there.

[Kayteg1]

What really annoyed me in F450 was low gearing.
That thing screamed at 3000 rpm doing 65 mph.
Economy was poor.
Than I bought F250 and turn out that F250 can pull the same 18,000 lb cargo on overdrive, while delivering much better mpg.

[davidaf]

As others have said the PU 450 is not a TC machine. Mine handles it fine but I pull a 5th wheel most of the time. I could have got by with a 350 (or a 3500) but the turning radius won me over. That with the 19.5s and other extras it just won. Price wasn't too far off a 350 when we did all the numbers. Basically the price delta covered the cost of the 19.5s if I were to go to Rickson and buy a good set.

Negatives besides the decreased payload vs the 350: Some insurance companies will not insure a 450, most companies will not finance if that is required and last i checked there are no airbags yet for the 15+ 450PU

[jimh406]

bighatnohorse wrote:
Might the steel manufacturing yield point, carbon content, hardening/tempering qualities have something to do with it?

I don't think so. The F450 has less springs and more deflection on purpose to ride better pulling the fiver.

[bighatnohorse]

The Mad Norsky wrote:


Not nitpicking, but the F 450 I compared in my earlier post had fewer leaf springs than my Ram 3500.

And they were sitting side by side, so I counted.

Might the steel manufacturing yield point, carbon content, hardening/tempering qualities have something to do with it?

[Kayteg1]

The Mad Norsky wrote:


Not nitpicking, but the F 450 I compared in my earlier post had fewer leaf springs than my Ram 3500. .

Same story that my 2007 F350 has more leafs than 1999 F450 .
But number of leafs is not everything.
Width, thickness comes to play and slight material improvements are still possible.
Also F350 was sold as chassis with longer wheelbase when F450 was short cab.

[Nautique200]

Right now the Ram has the advantage over Ford in my opinion. I could go on a long time why but it mainly boils down to capability and fit/finish. However, I am eagerly waiting on the next Ford Superduty to come out. If they do half of what I have heard they will have a hell of a new truck. My loyalty only lies with the brand that builds the best truck.

Chevy might have a new Engine and Transmission combo soon too. The heavy duty truck market is going to be interesting the next couple years. The Ram is slated for a major update in 2018 too.

[The_Mad_Norsky]

DrtEMaxChvy wrote:
Chevy 3500 lol, here are my thoughts, the F450 is a capable and stout rig however the 350 will do all you want and then some.
450 comes in with the extra leaf in the rear and a reinforced front end (yes more so than the 350. Most will never use this feature to their potential.

Not nitpicking, but the F 450 I compared in my earlier post had fewer leaf springs than my Ram 3500.

And they were sitting side by side, so I counted.

Mind you, I previously owned a 2011 F 350 dually. Sure wish I could remember how many leafs that one had just for comparison here.

[jimh406]

I had a Supercab before, but since it's a drw, and turns so tight, the extra foot hasn't been a problem. My longer F450 will turn way inside what my F350 SRW would.

[rwiegand]

When I looked the F450 only came with a quad cab. I'd rather have the long bed and shorter overall length than an extraneous set of rear doors and seats no one ever sits in. (did get the extended cab for interior storage space in my F350.)

[Nautique200]

Thats correct.