Some Towing Math and Questions

[Polishmagnum]

Hello all, new to the forum. A little about my camping setup, I currently have a 2017 RAM Bighorn 1500. My current trailer is a Dutchmen 222ES, a three bed hybrid. Canvas flip out beds. It is 26 foot long, including the tongue, and weighs 4700 pounds, curb weight. It can handle nearly 2000 pounds of cargo, for a total weight of 6700. Of course I never put a ton of stuff in it. I tow this effortlessly, dont even notice it back there, for the most part. The canvas beds can be noisy in some camgrounds, so I am looking at a new TT, hard sides.

I am looking for some opinions on towing capacity of my truck. It is an 8 speed transmission, 3.92 rear end, crew cab Bighorn. Trailer Life towing guide from 2017 lists its towing capacity at 10140 pounds.

I am an engineer, so I am trying to figure this tow capacity for real. I did the math on this three different ways, one based on trailer life rating minus the weight of me, passengers, payload, etc times a factor of safety of .85. This rating comes out to be 7500 lbs. The second way, based on GCWR of both units, comes out at 8255. The third way based on hitch weight, comes out at 7326. I didnt factor tire diameter into this, or anything that crazy, but it could affect it. You can only get so nerdy about this.

So weight, it seems I should be around 7500 pounds max. Does this make sense to people on the forum? The trailer I am looking at has a curb weight of 6100 pounds and a GVWR of 7700 pounds. So it can hold like 1600 pounds of stuff. I wouldnt put that much in it, and also that 7700 number is in line with my math. Thoughts?

Now on to length. I dont want to be all stressed out towing this thing as a result of wind pressure due to length. As I said, my current camper is 26ish feet long, and the new one would be about 31 feet long, both have tongue included. Five feet, no big deal right? Do people safely pull 30-33 foot TT's with half ton trucks, in general? Also, I found an online formula for length based on wheelbase of TV, and my math here says I should be between 25 and 28 feet. I do not know if that is the box length, or total length with the tongue.

So all that being said, what are your opinions of my thoughts, and do normal people pull such trailers safely with half ton trucks??

Thanks in advance, and sorry for all the nerd speak.

[Campfire_Time]

Don't guess at the capacity, and don't go by opinions on towing capacity, and only look at Trailer Life as a general guide.

Most of what you are looking for is right here: 2017 Ram Towing Charts.

I'm sort of puzzled that Ram has a separate towing guide. Not easy to find. GM has it right in the truck's manual. But at least it's available.

[rbpru]

I double anyone can accurately calculate the percentage of tongue weight, just to many variables between the way folks load and what they hall.

You can calculate a fair guess, which is a good start.

[MFL]

OP...there is always the what if (mister murphy) shouters, especially on this forum! Your truck will work! You don't need to have 15% tongue wt, 12% is more than required in most cases.

You will notice a difference between old trailer, and new. It will not be a big issue. Some posters do not even read/understand the specs you posted. Your total length is just short of 31' including the hitch and rear bumper. That is not a huge trailer. Your truck will not break, the sky will not fall. You could get struck by lightning (mr murphy)!

Jerry

[Polishmagnum]

Yea I mean that's sort of where I'm at too. I've figured this out 10 ways to Sunday, it all passes except payload, which is debatable. Heck it's all debatable. All the GVWR's and GWAR's and whatnot check out.

Here's the kicker. Tongue weight old trailer = 618 pounds. Tongue weight possible new trailer = 608 pounds. All the other things payload-wise are the same basically, and I've taken that trip already 40-50 times. So on paper, payload is not different than what I've done repeatedly for 1000s of mile. I get that tongue weight old trailer was about 12%, and tongue weight new trailer is say 10 or 11%, but then introduce weight distribution and then....different numbers.

I don't disregard safety in my job, life, or in this case. I've had road issues traveling, typical stuff, deer, traffic jams, evasive manuevers..It was all fine. More weight, more caution, but I don't see anything that says "this is impossible and you're a fool". Could be wrong, could be hit by an asteroid typing this as well.

I still dont know if I'll buy this, alot of wrangling to appease the wife being a light sleeper..haha..Might just find some soundproof blanket material and line the bunk end windows. However if I do buy it, I think it will be ok. I dont live in it, travel relatively light, buy food and beer along the way..etc

[time2roll]

Truck towing capacity 10,000
Trailer GVWR 7,700

Get a good hitch and go have some fun. Just don't expect to fill the bed with motorcycles, large grill and a bonfire of wood.

[TurnThePage]

Having a similar truck, and pulling a bit lighter trailer, I think you're good to go with your numbers. Payload is the hardest to adhere to. It's also not all that important when compared to the other numbers. Just my humble opinion of course. It's easy to exceed the payload while staying well below the other numbers. I do it all the time. GAWR might be the most important to stay below. Once again, JMHO.

[rbpru]

As an engineer you can do what I did. I went thought the meticulous calculations. Then with the rig loaded for the road, the day before we left, I took the rig to the local Truck Stop CAT scale.

It is easy to get combined truck and hitched trailer axel weights, then drop the trailer and get the axel weights of the truck alone. You can also get the unhitch total trailer weighed if you like.

I usually just get the truck weight per axel and then the truck and hitched trailer combination weight per axel. With that I can see the change in the truck axel weights when the rig is ready for the road.

I know that the change in truck axel weight is the trailer payload I am hauling.
The trailer payload is the tongue weight, the truck is seeing through the WD hitch.
I know the weight each axel is carrying down he road.
I know the weight of the combo, minus the truck weight, is the trailer weight.

I did this exercise a few time, before I realized that the trailer load varied by 200 to 500 pound between trips, depending the junk I could not live without.
Also gas, water and other consumables varied during a long trip.

The CAT scales do care about your math, they just tell you the weights. we all know, a heavy load creates more tear and tear on the tow vehicle. However, if I was at or near the trucks weight limit, so be it, if my wife thinks it is necessary, it is loaded. That is how it has been 42,000 towing mile or more.

[SV_Todd]

If you are concerned about wind pressure and trailer sway then consider the Propride 3p hitch. It's expensive compared to conventional WDH, but it uses a trapezodial link to project the pivot point of the trailer coupling close to the rear axle of the tow vehicle making it handle more like a fifth wheel.

[Polishmagnum]

Thanks for all the input, I'd like to hear more, but no, don't think my heart is set on doing what I proposed! Haha, I am a realist, and I try to make informed, sensible decisions. Just FYI, the trailer I am considering is this one:

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showroom/2021/travel-trailer/transcend-xplor/floorplans/261bh

And this is what I already have:

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2016-dutchmen-kodiak-express-travel-trailer-floorplan-222es-tr27869

I might even ask the local dealer if I can test pull it or something, but no I will not just attached any old behemoth to my truck without some justification. I appreciate the input from everyone!

[Grit_dog]

Rear suspension is soft and not ideal for heavy towing.
Rest of the truck will tug 4-5tons ok. But need to shore up rear suspension.

How “nice” it tows is subjective. Didn’t read the whole thread, but it’s not unreasonable to expect a 6000lb truck can pull a 9000lb trailer confidently and safely, just as it’s not unrealistic to think an 8000lb truck can pull a 16000lb trailer safely.
Half of what you’re up against here is your opinion and the opinion of a select group of folks here who, more so than the general trailer towing population, tend to preach “more is better” with the tone of “more is necessary and you’re a menace to motorists if you don’t have twice the truck you need.”

Of course a nice 1 ton diesel would pull and handle your new trailer like nothing at all. But depends whether you have the want, need or budget for the “ultimate” hauler or if “good enough” is good enough.
Cheers

[Gdetrailer]

MFL wrote:

In the end, you will know after towing. Do I feel comfortable, is my family safe? If you feel unsafe, you can upgrade the truck to a 2,500.

Jerry

Jerry, you make some good points.

However, there is a much greater risk that even though the combination may "feel safe" under normal conditions which gives you a very false sense of safety (good clear day, light winds, light traffic, ect)..

But, under less than "perfect" conditions that combination may come "unhinged"..

That is a danger of feelings and false security.

My own personal story comes from having "Mr Murphy" decide he was bored with me not once but twice with having the great fortune of having to execute emergency maneuvers at highway speeds of 70 MPH to avoid deer that Mr Murphy decided to send across the road right into my path..

Both times I was able to not only slam on the brakes but kept full control of my rig without skidding, sliding, jack knifing, veering into other traffic not even hitting the deer or causing damage to my rig or killing anyone..

Both times were with having a 3/4 ton towing 6500 lbs of our 26ft TT fully loaded for a weeks adventure.

I am not convinced a lighter tow vehicle would have commanded the trailer as well. 3/4 tons have stiffer springs, tighter handling which does make them a lot more stable for towing, heck on mine there is nearly 1,000 lbs more weight in my 3/4 ton over the same yr 1/2 ton truck.. There is more beef there..

My setup is far, far below the max weight ratings, in fact my 2020 3/4 ton has about 4,000 lbs of payload capacity which means I could if I wanted to tow 26,000 lbs!

If I was in the OPs shoes, I would be reconsidering the 31ft trailer with that combination, heck, it could be even longer than 31ft if the tongue was not included in the length as my 26ft trailer is the BOX length, the tongue adds 3.5 ft to mine making it almost 30 ft!

As far as weight goes, yeah, the OP in theory should be OK but the length may make the lighter half ton be pushed around a bit more..

The only way to know is OP will have to hook up and try to see if they will be satisfied but be aware of the false sense of security..

[MFL]

Just to answer a few questions, yes there are some on this forum towing a 7,500 lb loaded weight TT on this forum, with a 1/2 ton truck. As you know, all 1/2 tons are not equal, and yours with a 15XX payload is on the low side.

You are used to towing near 6K with your truck, and works well. A little longer, and some heavier, you will notice. You may go over your trucks payload number a bit, but not a deal breaker for many.

IMO, the combination truck/trailer will work. All drivers towing are not equal either, one says it tows easily, handles good, does not sway, while the next person, maybe lacking experience, says it was scary to tow. You have the power, and gearing needed, as you likely know.

In the end, you will know after towing. Do I feel comfortable, is my family safe? If you feel unsafe, you can upgrade the truck to a 2,500.

Jerry

[Gdetrailer]

Polishmagnum wrote:
Thank you all for so many thoughts! MFL, I cannot see an image you may have posted, but yes, GAWR on my door sticker is 3900 lbs.

Most of the information I used to calculate all this came off the door sticker, using my VIN on MOPAR site for original specs, and also from RAM website.

Yes, my truck is listed as having 1510 lbs. of cargo capacity. I used this in the calculations. GVWR-Curb Weight=Cargo, for truck. I got the same 1510 number that RAM posted. Cargo being people, bed full, whatever I add to truck.

I think I'm ok with my numbers, and I think sticking to a trailer with a GVWR around 7500 is a reasonable plan. But the real question, are there many sane, reasonable people towing say 7500 GVWR trailers at about 31 feet with a half ton? I'd like to hear from anyone, because I'm old enough to know the book figuring doesnt always correlate to real world...haha! Thanks everyone!

And as I pointed out, the trailer tongue plus WD become "cargo" of your truck!

So, a 7500 lb GVWR trailer can have up to 1125 lbs on the tongue not including WD and hitch head..

WD and hitch head are substantial at about 100 lbs!

So now a 7500 GVWR trailer fully loaded with wd and hitch head can weigh as much as 1225 lbs leaving you with only 285 lbs of available cargo for your truck!

Yes, you could make it work but only if you had one passenger and a very small amount of gear in the bed of the truck..

As far as length goes, I know there are folks towing with half tons with that length, it can be done, but I suspect it may not be all that fun to do..

A lot of things can go wrong, gonna get a lot more of "push-pull" from other vehicles passing you or you passing other vehicles..

Personally, I tow a 26ft TT with a 3/4 ton, was a pretty good noticeable difference with "push-pull" from a 20ft TT to 26ft TT..

Really is your choice, it seems like you have your heart set on the 31ft TT and the only way to find out is going to work well enough for you is to try it.. Everyone has a certain degree of "comfortability" I would call it as to how much or how bad of a feeling they get as to what is acceptable to them.

It might be acceptable to you, it may not..

I will say though, to hedge your bets for the best possible stability, you WILL need to get the tongue at 15%, you will need to scale the trailer and I would suggest a tongue scale so you know just how much tongue weight you have..

Sufficient tongue weight goes a long ways to making a stable tow, too light and the back of the trailer can easily start whipping out of control.. A lot of folks here like to quote 12%-13% just so they can stay under their cargo weights, 15% or even a touch more will make a huge difference in the towing handling.

[Polishmagnum]

That super long link I posted should have the numbers I used in the calculator, for those inclined to what to know this.