The new ST tires. Fact or fiction (marketing)

[Huntindog]

It is good that some manufacturers seem to be stepping up the quality of their ST tire offerings.. And even better that many of the proponents of ST tires on this forum are welcoming these new tires with open arms.... Though I must point out that since they are now so happy about this, that they must recognize the inferiorority of the previous tires... Despite many past statements to the contrary.

Now to the point of this post: Years back I studied the govt. testing standards for LT tires vs ST tires. It was a real eye opener and cemented my decision to pass on ST tires.

I am not interested on doing that again. It is a very hard read, and takes a lot of time. And having found my tire solution, I am not interested in go back to STs.

The question I have is about the new Higher speed ratings. Are these tires tested to to that by the govt? I am not so sure. Having an ST tire designation may limit at least some of the testing to the 65 MPH speed limit for ST tires. I doubt the regs have been changed because of these new tires.

If they are not being tested to the new ratings, then it is just marketing..... Again!

I tend to believe the worst as these new tires still have a very low price point. That was one of the primary reasons for the ST.
"The ST tire is an affordable solution for your trailer tire needs"
IOW, a cheap tire that is good enough.

Premium materials and construction cost money and should raise the price... Yet these new tires are still much less that half the price of a premium LT tire.

I smell a rat.

If I were an ST tire fan, I would want to know the truth.

[Atlee]

The 14" Maxxis tires on my previous trailer did not have a nylon cap under the tread. One of my Maxxis broke a steel ply in April of this year. I was lucky to notice it when I made an emergency stop to use the facilities on board the trailer. It wouldn't have been long, at highway speeds for it to come apart, with the resulting damage to the trailer. Those Maxxis were almost 4 years, and had over 32k miles on them.

My new trailer came with 15" GY Endurance tires on them, they are also LR D. They have 2 polyester plies, 2 steel plies, and 2 nylon plies.

JIMNLIN wrote:
Maxxis doesn't use a nylon cap under the tread in all sizes......to help hold the tire together which may be one reason for Maxxis tire complaints.
Maxxis doesn't say in their advertizing which sizes don't have the cap.

I wouldn't be surprised if Maxxis updated the 8008 tires for the higher speed ratings and a new tread design/carcass profile to match the competition.....in all their sizes.

[JIMNLIN]

Maxxis doesn't use a nylon cap under the tread in all sizes......to help hold the tire together which may be one reason for Maxxis tire complaints.
Maxxis doesn't say in their advertizing which sizes don't have the cap.

I wouldn't be surprised if Maxxis updated the 8008 tires for the higher speed ratings and a new tread design/carcass profile to match the competition.....in all their sizes.

[time2roll]

Airstreamer67 wrote:
All I know is that my last set of Maxxis STs lasted for eight years and many miles with no problems.

My first and only set (Maxxis) came apart just shy of four years.

[SoundGuy]

Today at my local dealer I had the opportunity to examine 3 tires - Goodyear Marathon LR C, Carlisle HD LR D, and Goodyear Endurance LR D. All brand new, unmounted, ST 205/75 R14. When bearing down as much as I could with my own body weight both the Marathon and Carlisle collapsed noticeably, the Endurance barely at all ... no question the Endurance has a much stiffer sidewall. Of course the Marathon has now been discontinued so between the Carlisle HD and Goodyear Endurance the only advantage I see to the former is it's noticeably lower price, I presume because it's manufactured overseas vs the Endurance which is manufactured in the US. I now have 1000 km on my recently installed Endurance tires so this test, though hardly scientific, helps explains why my trailer tows so much better now than it did previously with the stock off shore LR C tires.

[Airstreamer67]

All I know is that my last set of Maxxis STs lasted for eight years and many miles with no problems. I expect my new set to perform as well.

[kcfissel]

Your search for 'ST tires' found 550 matches.

Enough already!!!

[gmw_photos]

The owner manual for both my equipment and horse trailers dexter axles specifically state that either ST or LT are approved for use on their trailers up to the load capacity molded in the sidewall. P tires are approved for use but the load capacity molded in the sidewall is to be divided by 1.1

[JIMNLIN]

Tires have improved immensely since then. Today's Ps, STs and LTs are all designed for specific applications by the tire manufactures. Nobody says you have to listen to them, anymore than you have to pay attention to specs on your TV if you do not want to.

Agree on the improvements however we know a ST tire because of restrictions is a designated trailer tire only.

The tire mfg don't tell us the P or LT tire is specifically designed for just a single purpose only nor do they come with "to be used only" warning on the tire .

[rbpru]

Let me clarify a point, look at the original tires on vintage TTs from the 1940's, 50's and early 1960's. They had car tires in them, what today we refer to as "P".

My 60's vintage 14 footer had car tires, it was pulled buy a 400 cu/in plus engine in a station wagon behemoth that never new it was there. It did have a WD hitch however.

Tires have improved immensely since then. Today's Ps, STs and LTs are all designed for specific applications by the tire manufactures. Nobody says you have to listen to them, anymore than you have to pay attention to specs on your TV if you do not want to.

We all make the choices we feel will resolve the issues at hand.

[JIMNLIN]

LOL....that picture weighs more than 42 lbs. :B

[RinconVTR]

SoundGuy wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
Weather or not you decide to make the LT tire upgrade is totally up to you.

Your money, your choice.

Yep, on this one point you're absolutely correct ... except to say it's "whether", not "weather". 😛

I chose ST rated Endurance tires. 😉

Exactly, personal choice. I really hate this debate.

I could claim I am a strong proponent of ST tires because I've never had a failure within my family over 3 generations. But I would not claim ST's are better than what we refer to as LT tires. (mostly commercial grade tires vs a real LT tire...but whatever)



On the weight topic I opened in here, those skeptical of the 40lb ST tire were correct. I dont think there is such a thing.

My slow leaking Westlake with only 3000 miles weighs 23lbs.

Brand new Carlisle HD weighs 26lbs. Very likely within 1-2lbs of the actual weight of the new Endurance. ($68 shipped by Simple tire and only $53 shipped from Amazon...go Amazon!)

The HD as I mentioned feels significantly heavier than the Westlake and a ton stiffer too, but in reality the difference is not more than 3-4lbs. Simple tires shipping label still says 40lbs+. Go figure.

[Huntindog]

DinTulsa wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

DinTulsa wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

rbpru wrote:
As always the profound lack of understanding of the ST tire raises its head.

The ST was designed; with stiffer side walls, with UV resistant compounds, with a tread designed for straight pull and less rolling resistance and a service speed of 65 mph.

The were and still are designed for trailer use. Horse trailers, utility trailer, travel trailers and about any other type trailer you pull down the road. That has been their intended use decades as they were the replacement for the "P" type tire used previously.

For several years there was a controversy because the tire manufacturers switched to far-east production and suffered a loss quality control. That issue seems to have past and there was never any negative reports by the DOT. That does not keep folks from complaining and blaming every tire failure on foreign manufacturing.

Once again the industry has recognized a need for an improved tire and manufactures are responding.

Rest assured that once manufacturing is perfected they too will be built by cheaper labor.

No lack of understanding here. And I never once blamed the country of origin. In fact on the many sets of ST tires I owned I never even looked to see where they were made. I just don't think that is a problem.

But the ST tire did not come about to replace the "p" tires which were NOT commonly used in trailer service.

Rather they were to replace more expensive LT tires.

This is a quote used by many in the industry
" The ST tire is an affordable tire solution for your trailering needs"

Sounds good doesn't it?
Note what it doesn't say.
That it is a better tire than the LTs that were used before.

Said another way; " The ST tire is a cheaper tire that is good enough for trailer use"

This is a far more accurate statement.
All of the so called benefits of the ST tires are not tested for in the govt. regs.
In fact the ST vs LT tire testing standards are/were vastly different. The LT must past far more stringent tests over all.
As for the special needs of trailer tires.. There is only one test that could apply to that. the bead unseating force. Those tests are identical for both STs and LTs.

I particularly like the shallower tread for cooler running of ST tires claim. That is a joke. First off, heat is not a big problem as trailer tires spend most all of their time simply rolling down the road following the TVs tires which do most of the work.
Next it is common knowledge in the tire world that shallow tread means less puncture resistance, and less traction (more hydroplaning) What shallow tread DOES mean to the manufacturer is less rubber used in the tire, and a cheaper cost. Then there is the claim that fewer plies with thicker cords are used for the same reasons... It is also cheaper to make it using this method.
Of course saying it that way would not sound good when one is trying to sell a tire. So a positive spin is put on it. Also known as marketing.

This works for many as most trailer tires age out far before the tread wears out. And most consumers are really sensitive to cost.
They simply cannot justify paying LT prices for a TT tire that only gets used 2-3 times a year for far less than a 1000 miles a year, and doesn't carry passengers. Vs. their TV tires which are used everyday for tens of thousands of miles a year and do carry people.

So if a cheaper ST tire meets your needs, it is perfectly legal to use them on your trailer. It is also perfectly legal to use LTs on your trailer.
However it is NOT legal to use ST tires on your TV!!
That fact alone speaks volumes.

You have spent a lot of time on this thread just listening to yourself talk. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with you on the fact that LT are built to a better standard than ST tires. But, take my situation for example. I'm leaving in a week on a 2000 mile trip, I need new tires today. I don't have time for a trailer shop to move my axles out to fit 16' tires, 15" LT's won't carry the weight of my rv. Not only that, the cost to move my axles, new 16" wheels and 1000+ dollars for LT tires make the transition cost prohibitive. I plan to keep my rv for 8-9 more years prior to upgrading to a 5th wheel. I can buy a new set of Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires every 3 years until I upgrade my trailer and still be under the cost of the one time LT tire upgrade. Not only that, I will have to buy another set of LT tires after 5-6 years, unless LT tires are not subject to age. I figure you will argue and say that Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires won't last 3 years due to being ST tires and being new, but there is a proven track record on the Maxxis that says they will. So I'll stick with the better quality ST tires and keep rolling down the road for now. When I upgrade to a larger unit that can handle 16" tires from the factory, I'll make the transition to LT.

If you are trying to insult me...You gotta do better than that.

Weather or not you decide to make the LT tire upgrade is totally up to you. Weather or not you decide to actually read the testing standards is your decision as well.... As for your reasoning for staying with STs...Keep in mind that one blowout can change the financial picture.
Damage to the rig in the thousands of dollars is not uncommon.
Not to mention a trip being ruined from it

Your money, your choice.

Not trying to insult you. Just stating the obvious... you like to restate your opinion and explain why your opinion is the only right one. Don't mind that hundreds of thousands or millions of miles are ran on st tires a year without issue. Far more miles are ran on trailers equipped with st tires a year than LT. But I did see a truck with a flat tire today, so that means all LT tires are garbage.

If you do a search far enough back, you will find something interesting.
I USED to be a very strong and vocal ST tire proponent... But I changed after many sets of ST tires and upgrades and failures... And far too much money thrown away.
So yeah, I have a strong opinion, and I want to save as many people as possible from my experience.
Some day you may change your mind as well... Hopefully your education will be cheaper than mine was.

[SoundGuy]

Huntindog wrote:
Weather or not you decide to make the LT tire upgrade is totally up to you.

Your money, your choice.

Yep, on this one point you're absolutely correct ... except to say it's "whether", not "weather". 😛

I chose ST rated Endurance tires. 😉

[DinTulsa]

Huntindog wrote:

DinTulsa wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

rbpru wrote:
As always the profound lack of understanding of the ST tire raises its head.

The ST was designed; with stiffer side walls, with UV resistant compounds, with a tread designed for straight pull and less rolling resistance and a service speed of 65 mph.

The were and still are designed for trailer use. Horse trailers, utility trailer, travel trailers and about any other type trailer you pull down the road. That has been their intended use decades as they were the replacement for the "P" type tire used previously.

For several years there was a controversy because the tire manufacturers switched to far-east production and suffered a loss quality control. That issue seems to have past and there was never any negative reports by the DOT. That does not keep folks from complaining and blaming every tire failure on foreign manufacturing.

Once again the industry has recognized a need for an improved tire and manufactures are responding.

Rest assured that once manufacturing is perfected they too will be built by cheaper labor.

No lack of understanding here. And I never once blamed the country of origin. In fact on the many sets of ST tires I owned I never even looked to see where they were made. I just don't think that is a problem.

But the ST tire did not come about to replace the "p" tires which were NOT commonly used in trailer service.

Rather they were to replace more expensive LT tires.

This is a quote used by many in the industry
" The ST tire is an affordable tire solution for your trailering needs"

Sounds good doesn't it?
Note what it doesn't say.
That it is a better tire than the LTs that were used before.

Said another way; " The ST tire is a cheaper tire that is good enough for trailer use"

This is a far more accurate statement.
All of the so called benefits of the ST tires are not tested for in the govt. regs.
In fact the ST vs LT tire testing standards are/were vastly different. The LT must past far more stringent tests over all.
As for the special needs of trailer tires.. There is only one test that could apply to that. the bead unseating force. Those tests are identical for both STs and LTs.

I particularly like the shallower tread for cooler running of ST tires claim. That is a joke. First off, heat is not a big problem as trailer tires spend most all of their time simply rolling down the road following the TVs tires which do most of the work.
Next it is common knowledge in the tire world that shallow tread means less puncture resistance, and less traction (more hydroplaning) What shallow tread DOES mean to the manufacturer is less rubber used in the tire, and a cheaper cost. Then there is the claim that fewer plies with thicker cords are used for the same reasons... It is also cheaper to make it using this method.
Of course saying it that way would not sound good when one is trying to sell a tire. So a positive spin is put on it. Also known as marketing.

This works for many as most trailer tires age out far before the tread wears out. And most consumers are really sensitive to cost.
They simply cannot justify paying LT prices for a TT tire that only gets used 2-3 times a year for far less than a 1000 miles a year, and doesn't carry passengers. Vs. their TV tires which are used everyday for tens of thousands of miles a year and do carry people.

So if a cheaper ST tire meets your needs, it is perfectly legal to use them on your trailer. It is also perfectly legal to use LTs on your trailer.
However it is NOT legal to use ST tires on your TV!!
That fact alone speaks volumes.

You have spent a lot of time on this thread just listening to yourself talk. I don't think anyone is really disagreeing with you on the fact that LT are built to a better standard than ST tires. But, take my situation for example. I'm leaving in a week on a 2000 mile trip, I need new tires today. I don't have time for a trailer shop to move my axles out to fit 16' tires, 15" LT's won't carry the weight of my rv. Not only that, the cost to move my axles, new 16" wheels and 1000+ dollars for LT tires make the transition cost prohibitive. I plan to keep my rv for 8-9 more years prior to upgrading to a 5th wheel. I can buy a new set of Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires every 3 years until I upgrade my trailer and still be under the cost of the one time LT tire upgrade. Not only that, I will have to buy another set of LT tires after 5-6 years, unless LT tires are not subject to age. I figure you will argue and say that Endurance\Maxxis or Carlisle HD tires won't last 3 years due to being ST tires and being new, but there is a proven track record on the Maxxis that says they will. So I'll stick with the better quality ST tires and keep rolling down the road for now. When I upgrade to a larger unit that can handle 16" tires from the factory, I'll make the transition to LT.

If you are trying to insult me...You gotta do better than that.

Weather or not you decide to make the LT tire upgrade is totally up to you. Weather or not you decide to actually read the testing standards is your decision as well.... As for your reasoning for staying with STs...Keep in mind that one blowout can change the financial picture.
Damage to the rig in the thousands of dollars is not uncommon.
Not to mention a trip being ruined from it

Your money, your choice.

Not trying to insult you. Just stating the obvious... you like to restate your opinion and explain why your opinion is the only right one. Don't mind that hundreds of thousands or millions of miles are ran on st tires a year without issue. Far more miles are ran on trailers equipped with st tires a year than LT. But I did see a truck with a flat tire today, so that means all LT tires are garbage.