This is a reason why Pop Ups aren't selling......

HRcampers wrote:
Picking up our new 2016 Rockwood A192HW A-frame hardside pop up this Saturday.

DW and I are very much looking forward to the downsize. We started with a base Rockwood Pop up and have had 3 TT's and one 5er in between.

I'm sure there will be regrets in some cases, especially the loss of a full size washroom, but the positives in our current situation, will out number the negatives.

Biggest positive for me will be storing it in my garage as opposed to storing it in a storage lot 4 miles away. Another positive will be not having to take care of and tow such a large trailer.

We are empty nesters now and it's just the two of us. We are excited to make the change.

I do agree with many posters on this subject, that the price we paid for this a-frame, exceeds many TT's that are 19-26 feet in length.

Did the same thing 8 months ago you are doing now but we are not empty nesters (looking foward to it though). We made the change for exactly the same reasons you have and never looked back. Actually, we thought about moving on to another hobby because RVing wasn't fun anymore. In the end what we needed was to get back to camping, not RVing.

Adam

Picking up our new 2016 Rockwood A192HW A-frame hardside pop up this Saturday.

DW and I are very much looking forward to the downsize. We started with a base Rockwood Pop up and have had 3 TT's and one 5er in between.

I'm sure there will be regrets in some cases, especially the loss of a full size washroom, but the positives in our current situation, will out number the negatives.

Biggest positive for me will be storing it in my garage as opposed to storing it in a storage lot 4 miles away. Another positive will be not having to take care of and tow such a large trailer.

We are empty nesters now and it's just the two of us. We are excited to make the change.

I do agree with many posters on this subject, that the price we paid for this a-frame, exceeds many TT's that are 19-26 feet in length.

mileshuff wrote:
... Today's lightest Jayco popup is 1500lbs dry ...

1,265# actually. And those weights are a bit more honest than they once were since such absurdities as "optional" spare tires are now standard equipment included in the base weight.

Granted, that still doesn't include the battery, LP, AC, furnace, etc but you CAN still get the basic light popup of old. It's just that few actually DO. I'm pretty sure a modern Camry 4 banger actually would do a lot better job towing it than a Suzuki with the wheezy 4 cylinder of 20ish years ago!

The poster who cited demographics may have nailed it. The average family of the 50's and 60's had 3-4 kids. Today the average is 1.6 kids. Two less kids dragging down finances and fewer bodies to lay out for sleeping does, perhaps, explain the feature creep and TT trend.

I didn't read the whole thread so I may repeat something or it may not be popular.

A full size pop up is a monster by the time it has all of the conveniences of a regular trailer. I would need the Expedition that pulls our 25ft TT, the gas mileage may be better but the hassle isn't worth it.

Our 3 season TT cost $13.5 new, can't get much pop up for that. I've done sub freezing in tents and trailers, a cheap 3 season is still better than canvas.

I have seen pop ups associated with the less affluent families with a bunch of kids. Other than that I see the biggest interest in the off road crowd.

I did see pop ups I wouldn't mind having. Nothing fancy, actually the ultra light weight, high clearance models. Nothing it it, tent gear only and pulled by our wimpy F150 4x4 that can't handle the lightest TC or pull a decent pop up. What it can do is pull something light and high clearance places I'd never take the trailer or fit a TC.

Yeahhh That'll get me in trouble. LoL

I'd say expense and weight. The two main reasons people opt for a popup is low weight for easy towing and lower costs compared to a TT.

Todays popups are NOT light weight and NOT low cost. In the early 90's we bought a Coleman Roanoke. Weighed about 1,000lbs fully loaded. I towed it for years with a lowly Suzuki Samurai. Today's lightest Jayco popup is 1500lbs dry and priced more than three times as much. Inflation doesn't account for the price.

I think the REAL reason for the demise of the PUP is AFFLUENCE! When we bought our Coleman PUP 33 years ago in 1983, PUPS were everywhere! Our family of 4 were young, the kids small and a PUP was luxurious by camping standards then! PUPS outnumbered TT's back then as an economical way to upgrade from a tent. Ours was a 82 Coleman Sun Valley which was pretty big for the 80's and it cost only 3000 as a demo. It weighed only 1000 lbs and we actually towed it with a Toyota Celica then later a Plymouth Voyager 4 cyl mini van! We used it for almost 30 years and each year the number of PUPS declined and TT's and class A's increased. Just like bigger houses for 1st
timers, campers evolved into much fancier big TT's and the much more affluent baby boomers as they are retiring can afford much bigger and nicer TT's . I also think concerns over security with the way the world has changed are leading buyers to secure TT's compared to a PUP with just canvas between where you and the family are sleeping and the outside world. When we go camping now, Pups are about 10% at best compared to TT's, 5th wheels and class A's. So just like our homes were bigger and fancier than our parent's homes.. so it is with campers these days!

This was an easy fix for our two kids who can't stand to be near each other. Well, one of them can't which causes a cascade of issues but regardless. With a 14' highwall, each bunk end is a king. We made two "rooms" out of the other bunk by putting 3-drawer plastic shelves right down the middle under the shepherds pole. After we taught them to quit screwing around with pushing the drawers into each other (kids can be taught), it has worked beautifully for years now. The bonus is that it gives us storage for their clothes and other things and DS thinks he has a bit of a man cave on his side for when he needs to retreat.

It's all in how you approach issues and look to resolve them.

Jeff10236 wrote:
For a family a pop-up has definite advantages over a TT. A pop-up has dedicated sleeping space for a family of four without having to convert a sofa or dinette to a bed.

I disagree on that one. Trying to get our son and daughter to sleep in the bed is a no go. Their age differences are huge and my daughter would never sleep. The one big problem was finding sofas and dinettes large enough for sleeping, since no Pop Up has 3 bunkends.

There are so many TTs out there with 3 separate sleeping areas. Hek, even the small R-Pods now offer several bunk models.

Back to the OP, sure, price probably has something to do with the drop in pop-up sales. Though, I'm not sure it is anywhere near the main reason. Look at the A-frames, they are flying off dealer lots (compared to many other RV categories anyway), are a type of pop-up, and are priced up there with the hybrids and cheaper TTs. Heck, while many pop-ups certainly can be overpriced and overweight, pretty much every pop-up manufacturer puts out one 8' and one 10' model (and often a 12' model) in their economy lines that are reasonable on price and weight (Jayco 8SD, 10SD, 12UD; Flagstaff 175LTD and 206LTD; and Rockwood 1640 and 1940 for instance).

I think a bigger factor is demographics. 20 or 30 years ago, you would see many families out there camping in pop-ups. For a family a pop-up has definite advantages over a TT. A pop-up has dedicated sleeping space for a family of four without having to convert a sofa or dinette to a bed. For a family with more than 2 kids you will need to convert living space to sleeping space, but a TT with sleeping space (even converted sleeping space) for more than 4 will be getting quite large, heavy, and expensive. Today, most RVers are older with grown kids. That demographic doesn't need as much dedicated sleeping space so the more restricted sleeping areas of a TT (or A-frame) aren't the disadvantage they are for a family so the TT becomes more popular. If you don't need the big advantage of a pop-up (more sleeping area in a smaller space), why deal with the extra set up of a pop-up (especially at a demographic where arthritis and other aches and pains start to show up).

Related to the above, living situations may make TTs more popular. Someone already mentioned housing costs keeping many younger families out of buying a camper due to tighter finances (and we all know that real income has been declining over the past 30 years). Also, related to more older folks and fewer families in campers, I suspect that living situations due to an aging RVing population may negate one of the big advantages of pop-ups. One of the big advantages of a pop-up is that you can store it in your garage. With a larger TT, many communities don't allow you to park them on your property so you have the extra cost of storage. Well, my parents just bought a 55 and over condo and are about to move out of the house where I grew up, and an aunt and uncle did the same thing (in a bungalow) a few years ago, and they aren't alone. Many older people are moving out of the houses (with garages) where they raised their kids into over 55 bungalows (with tighter spaces and streets where pulling a trailer would be tough), over 55 condos and regular condos. Living in a condo or apartment, you may not be able to store your pop-up on the property, so with either a TT or pop-up you may need to rent storage space, thus negating one of the biggest advantages of a PUP.

Now, over the past couple years, I seem to see more and more young families rediscovering camping and I see many out there tent camping. I'm hoping that as many of them decide to move up to something more comfortable we will see an uptick in the pup-up market. Even if we don't, I think the declining sales is far more complicated than just the price of the units.

My Rockwood HW316TH pop up camper was "on sale" in Denver, Colorado for $18,999, from the MSRP of $21,999. I told the salesman that it wasn't worth even near that amount. I found one in Iowa for $12,300 for the exact same camper. I bought it the next week.

I had a friend in the business that told me that MSRP is double what the dealer paid for the trailer.