This is a reason why Pop Ups aren't selling......

[Mike_Up]

as well as they use to. It's because of how expensive they are now especially compared to travel trailers.



2015 Jay Series 1209SC

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $817.00

Bath/shower with hard walls $2,129.00

(2) Bed mat heaters $262.00

Stereo w/ outside speakers $187.00

Powered roof vent $210.00

16,000-BTU furnace w/ auto ignition $397.00

$17,608 MSRP

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2015 Jay Flight SLX 184BH

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Roof-mounted 13,500-BTU A/C $412.00

$14,647 MSRP
--------------------------------------------------------------



264BHW | 2015 JAY FLIGHT SLX

The options for this floorplan are listed below.

Customer Value Package (Mandatory) $1,199.00

Spare tire $180.00

$18,463 MSRP
----------------------------------------------------------

[Mike_Up]

Most home owners already have a full size truck or SUV to load large and heavy items to keep their homes up or to upgrade their homes. I could never have a small vehicle as they are not built to haul loads of dirt, stone, stepping stone, firewood, or anything. Even my midsize SUVs were a pain where I had to rely on someone else. So I got trucks that could do what I needed around the house.

So if you're a home owner, you'll already have a truck or large SUV making the capable tow vehicle a none issue. Most home owners I know, have one. Those that pay others to do the work they can't, may only have crossover vehicles. In that case, if you have that type of disposal money, then getting the best bang for your buck may not have the same meaning that it does to me and others I know.

I go strictly to state campgrounds and in most cases I can get the same campsites that I had with the pop ups. I now may just need to park the truck on the side of the pad instead of in front of the camper. My Pop Ups had 12' boxes with queen and oversize queen beds. They had a total opened length of 23'6" where my TT has a length of 29'1", 5.5' longer.

The travel trailer is easier to back in for sure, with it dual axles. Now I can't get into some campsites that have ditches on them and are angled away instead of at 90 degrees or toward me. Those old campgrounds were designed for small tent campers and tents, not even large Pop Ups. I also can't get into some L shaped sites that I could angle in with my short wheelbase midsize SUVs and Pups, but it's well worth it.

Now I don't have to deal with leaking or sweating bunkends, and I have sound insulation from the noisy group next to me. My wife is also a lot more comfortable with out the low storage and inconvenient small appliances. Now we can enjoy more time relaxing, fishing, hiking, or sitting around the campfire.

Now I'm a bit smarter and just reserve campsites even if a couple days before we go, to make sure I get a site that I want near the woods or water, that is level, and that has no obstructions making entry and egress difficult.

I do like Pop Ups (although the wife does not) but not at a TT price.

[94Chalet]

John & Angela wrote:

manualman wrote:
This thread overly generalizes rather badly.

I agree that a loaded highwall popup makes little sense financially compared to a comparable camping space TT.

But the good old days of popup are NOT gone. One can still buy a Jayco 1207 for about $10k and sleep a family of five in considerable comfort.

And you can tow it with a minivan easily (My 2003 Odyssey has 210,000 miles on it and pulled our comparable Sun Valley up and down Rockies and Appalachians many times - all original powertrain.

And it lasts virtually forever when stored in the garage (with no worries about vandals or roof leaks in off season storage).

And the van rear view mirror works on the road.

And I get 18-19 mpg towing interstates and a van that can flirt with 30mpg when on highway NOT towing. (2011 and later Odyssey's anyways)

Van tires cost me $550 a set and last about 65,000 miles. Can't do THAT in a Burb.

Pups still give families the opportunity to camp in comfort at a modest entry price and without the camper owning YOU (assuming garage storage anyways). Fixed height RVs eat your life. They own you.

The average family that owns a minivan or CUV like a Pilot or Acadia wants to start camping. They can:

1. Buy a TT and a double cab pickup truck all at once, along with accessories (brake control, wdh, setup gear, etc).

2. Buy a midsized, non-slide popup, add tow equipment to the vehicle they already own and buy similar accessories as in #1 above.

Honestly, somebody is going to argue that #1 above is CHEAPER? Not unless you already own the truck or beefy SUV. Fewer and fewer families like that in this auto market. #2 is dramatically cheaper. In fact we've taken enough of our vacations in the pup now that had we gone the same destinations and stayed in hotels and eaten out we'd have spent MORE. A basic pup allows camping vacations to be cheaper AND better than traditional hotel vacations.

Our 10 year old garage stored pup still looks nearly brand new when setup. Looks better than most 3-4 year old TT's stored outside.

Excellent post. There is a market for these things. Its not about what the money would buy in an equivalent trailer, its the facility that it provides and the fact it can be pulled by a vehicle with low tow capacity.

I agree, an excellent post. My eight year old PUP looks brand new as well from being stored in our garage... and we actually use it 7-8 times per year. $18K is a lot for a popup camper but it's only $18K if someone is willing to pay that price for it. I for one could never use a large TT like the OP has. Even if someone gave it to me, I could not use it. I could never pull it to places that I enjoy camping. In a way this thread is comparing apples to oranges.

[John___Angela]

manualman wrote:
This thread overly generalizes rather badly.

I agree that a loaded highwall popup makes little sense financially compared to a comparable camping space TT.

But the good old days of popup are NOT gone. One can still buy a Jayco 1207 for about $10k and sleep a family of five in considerable comfort.

And you can tow it with a minivan easily (My 2003 Odyssey has 210,000 miles on it and pulled our comparable Sun Valley up and down Rockies and Appalachians many times - all original powertrain.

And it lasts virtually forever when stored in the garage (with no worries about vandals or roof leaks in off season storage).

And the van rear view mirror works on the road.

And I get 18-19 mpg towing interstates and a van that can flirt with 30mpg when on highway NOT towing. (2011 and later Odyssey's anyways)

Van tires cost me $550 a set and last about 65,000 miles. Can't do THAT in a Burb.

Pups still give families the opportunity to camp in comfort at a modest entry price and without the camper owning YOU (assuming garage storage anyways). Fixed height RVs eat your life. They own you.

The average family that owns a minivan or CUV like a Pilot or Acadia wants to start camping. They can:

1. Buy a TT and a double cab pickup truck all at once, along with accessories (brake control, wdh, setup gear, etc).

2. Buy a midsized, non-slide popup, add tow equipment to the vehicle they already own and buy similar accessories as in #1 above.

Honestly, somebody is going to argue that #1 above is CHEAPER? Not unless you already own the truck or beefy SUV. Fewer and fewer families like that in this auto market. #2 is dramatically cheaper. In fact we've taken enough of our vacations in the pup now that had we gone the same destinations and stayed in hotels and eaten out we'd have spent MORE. A basic pup allows camping vacations to be cheaper AND better than traditional hotel vacations.

Our 10 year old garage stored pup still looks nearly brand new when setup. Looks better than most 3-4 year old TT's stored outside.

Excellent post. There is a market for these things. Its not about what the money would buy in an equivalent trailer, its the facility that it provides and the fact it can be pulled by a vehicle with low tow capacity.

[manualman]

This thread overly generalizes rather badly.

I agree that a loaded highwall popup makes little sense financially compared to a comparable camping space TT.

But the good old days of popup are NOT gone. One can still buy a Jayco 1207 for about $10k and sleep a family of five in considerable comfort.

And you can tow it with a minivan easily (My 2003 Odyssey has 210,000 miles on it and pulled our comparable Sun Valley up and down Rockies and Appalachians many times - all original powertrain.

And it lasts virtually forever when stored in the garage (with no worries about vandals or roof leaks in off season storage).

And the van rear view mirror works on the road.

And I get 18-19 mpg towing interstates and a van that can flirt with 30mpg when on highway NOT towing. (2011 and later Odyssey's anyways)

Van tires cost me $550 a set and last about 65,000 miles. Can't do THAT in a Burb.

Pups still give families the opportunity to camp in comfort at a modest entry price and without the camper owning YOU (assuming garage storage anyways). Fixed height RVs eat your life. They own you.

The average family that owns a minivan or CUV like a Pilot or Acadia wants to start camping. They can:

1. Buy a TT and a double cab pickup truck all at once, along with accessories (brake control, wdh, setup gear, etc).

2. Buy a midsized, non-slide popup, add tow equipment to the vehicle they already own and buy similar accessories as in #1 above.

Honestly, somebody is going to argue that #1 above is CHEAPER? Not unless you already own the truck or beefy SUV. Fewer and fewer families like that in this auto market. #2 is dramatically cheaper. In fact we've taken enough of our vacations in the pup now that had we gone the same destinations and stayed in hotels and eaten out we'd have spent MORE. A basic pup allows camping vacations to be cheaper AND better than traditional hotel vacations.

Our 10 year old garage stored pup still looks nearly brand new when setup. Looks better than most 3-4 year old TT's stored outside.

[BudRock]

Talk about limited choices in pop ups. I went to the Western New York RV show today. Of all the trailers there, the only pop up at the show was the canvas topped Livin' Lite Quicksilver. Sad.

[DE88ROX]

Mike Up wrote:

DE88ROX wrote:


knowing that PUPs nowadays are selling for more than what I paid for my trailer new in 2012 ($11,000) is crazy. But, like others have mentioned, PUPs are nice if you have a mini van or SUV and don't want to fork over the money for a full sized truck/hitch systems etc. The start up cost going from a PUP to a TT trailer can get pricey.

You got one hek of a price on the 235FB for sure. I thought I did well with a bit over $14K for my 26BH.

I've always had truck based vehicles, just bought a trailer that was within their capacity at the time.

I know!!! I practically stole it from the dealer at the RV show. Even through in a free flat screen TV. I thought about selling it when i took possession because I knew I could make a couple K on it easy.

I just did a KBB pricing on it, with all my options and it still lists for around 18k.

[mwomack]

We went to the RV show in Nashville yesterday and again noted how the PU price was higher than comparable trailers. We won't pay that much for a PU.
We bought our '90 Flaggstaff used for $2000 because we wanted to get off the ground. We towed it with a '91 S-10 for years and thought it was great...until the day hitched it to a Durango. We towed it over Monteagle and forgot it was back there. (Just because your truck or car WILL tow your trailer doesn't mean it SHOULD.) A couple of years ago we sold it for $2,000.
We are now looking for a trailer only because we often travel several hours to a camp site and then set up. Setting up a PU at midnight is a pain...and your camping neighbors aren't happy to be awoken that late. Another option a TT gives is a night in a rest area or parking lot. Can't do that in a PU...well I guess you could, but I won't. 🙂
As for the PU, I loved the room and would love to have a TT like it. They don't make them like my Flagstaff anymore, too much stuff in there. For the same money, I will definitely buy an TT and not have to set it up upon arrival.

[Mike_Up]

DE88ROX wrote:


knowing that PUPs nowadays are selling for more than what I paid for my trailer new in 2012 ($11,000) is crazy. But, like others have mentioned, PUPs are nice if you have a mini van or SUV and don't want to fork over the money for a full sized truck/hitch systems etc. The start up cost going from a PUP to a TT trailer can get pricey.

You got one hek of a price on the 235FB for sure. I thought I did well with a bit over $14K for my 26BH.

I've always had truck based vehicles, just bought a trailer that was within their capacity at the time.

[campthewestcoas]

avoidcrowds wrote:
We had a popup, specifically so we could go off-road. We now have a hard-side expandable, and it can still go off-road. But, no TT can go most of the places we go, due to trees being too close to the trail.

While not all popup owners take them off-road, I would venture that at least 25% of PUPs go 4-wheelin' frequently. That is one reason they will always be the choice for some.

Others enjoy the better fuel efficiency of towing a PUP, as you can easily get half-again the mileage as someone towing a TT, with its high front wall.

PUPs have their niche. For some, the price is not the only consideration. Functionality is a major part of the equation. Add amenities to the PUP, and they do get pricey. But, there is less difference in functionality of a PUP to a TT when you add the pricey amenities. I am willing to pay for comfort in an expandable. You may not be willing to pay for what I consider very important. No problem.

Ditto, as an owner of a 22 ft hi-lo the benifitts work for what i need. Since the truck was paid for, I had to find a large trailer to tow with good gas mileage. Towing with a V6 over a 12,000 ft pass in the colorado rookies was also a plus

[DE88ROX]

It is crazy at how expensive PUPS have become. I paid $5,200 for this back in 1995 at an RV show. It was pretty basic with just a small fridge and a pump faucet. I sold it 17 years later for $2,000 when I bought the trailer in my sig. I think I got a good price for it. The pic below was taken the the week I sold it. Nice and clean all original (except the awning) I do miss it at times, but the trade off to having a full bathroom, hot water and a full size fridge makes camping a lot more easier. I find myself going a lot more now that I have the trailer.

knowing that PUPs nowadays are selling for more than what I paid for my trailer new in 2012 ($11,000) is crazy. But, like others have mentioned, PUPs are nice if you have a mini van or SUV and don't want to fork over the money for a full sized truck/hitch systems etc. The start up cost going from a PUP to a TT trailer can get pricey.

[jerem0621]

I checked out a pretty nice PUP the other day. It was a Palomino PUP, 10 ft box, heated mattress', pretty high end for a PUP and VERY NICE... Looked at the price and it was $5,900 bucks. I scratched my head a little...

Turns out that it was a 2011 PUP not a new one..but it was like new. If I had my camper savings up to $5,900.00 it would have went home with me that day. Beautiful.

I think there is a market for PUPS but the market is very narrow and these things are just too expensive.

I'd love to go TrailManor but would have to go with an older one since they are pretty pricy newish. I have found a 3023 for $7,500.00 and that would work great.. but the funds is an issue too. I'll probably end up getting a 90's model Trailmanor and fixing it to our families usage. (which probably means me restoring it. LOL)

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[PAThwacker]

I did the pup experiment, go big, go new, go glamper style, and what a mistake it was.

2hr setup, 3hr breakdown. Since then Fleetwood/Coleman,Somerset- PA pulled the plug on operations. Economy folded, and the current line of pups were heavy. 8 foot pups needed 3500lb tow ratings. 10ft and 12ft step up to 1/2 ton pickups. You can do 8ft popups with CUV. You carry loads of gear, passengers, and run out of payload quick. The minvan CUV craze is soon to be over.


Bits and pieces of info are showing the K5 Blazer 4.5 diesel, Colorado diesel, Titan Cummins Diesel, and aluminum bodied f150.

[avoidcrowds]

We had a popup, specifically so we could go off-road. We now have a hard-side expandable, and it can still go off-road. But, no TT can go most of the places we go, due to trees being too close to the trail.

While not all popup owners take them off-road, I would venture that at least 25% of PUPs go 4-wheelin' frequently. That is one reason they will always be the choice for some.

Others enjoy the better fuel efficiency of towing a PUP, as you can easily get half-again the mileage as someone towing a TT, with its high front wall.

PUPs have their niche. For some, the price is not the only consideration. Functionality is a major part of the equation. Add amenities to the PUP, and they do get pricey. But, there is less difference in functionality of a PUP to a TT when you add the pricey amenities. I am willing to pay for comfort in an expandable. You may not be willing to pay for what I consider very important. No problem.

[jay427]

One of the reason I bet for raise in pricing is the amount of warranty work they end up paying for.

I had a few pop-ups, matter of fact went from a TT to a new Jayco PUP, what a disaster that turned out to be, in the end they made good on the trailer and bought it back, that was in 2012. With the pricing I'm seeing I would be hard pressed to buy a PUP compared to the TT market.

[_tiredTeacher]

rickm wrote:
Personally, i think this is a dumb post..... .

But the thread has endured for 5 pages with some thoughtful discussions, both on the original topic and a few ancillary ones.

Jus' sayin'
Teach