Tow a ski boat behind a TC?

[TruckCamperNoob]

Hi everyone - been studying up on how to tow a boat behind a truck camper. Kind of out of the blue, my wife and I have recently bought a ski/surf boat (2005 Mastercraft x10) and have absolutely fallen in love with boating. We have two small kids and been planning on buying a trailer in the future, and with the addition of the boat our focus has quickly shifted to a Truck + Truck Camper Magazine + Boat combo.

I know people do this, but I am trying to figure out how because as far as I can tell this kind of combination is going to more than max out even the most extreme trucks.

It seems like the limiting factor is overall payload. Do I have this math right?

Payload = GVWR - truck weight

Weight of camper + **tongue weight (??)** of trailer + all people, gear, water and fuel = must be less than overall payload.

We’re contemplating buying both the pickup and the camper (probably recent models but used), so here’s a rough example of what we’re considering:

GMC 3500 diesel, single rear wheel (not dually) - payload: ~4,200
Lance 855S - wet weight: ~3,300 pounds
Mastercraft x10 - trailer weight: ~4,200 pounds, tongue weight:~ 400 lbs

In this scenario, our payload situation would be 3,300 TC +. 400 boat TW = 3,700 pounds. Deducted from a 4,200 pound payload, we’d have 500 pounds available for all passengers, fuel, and gear.

This is where things seem to run aground (pun!). You’re probably going to have at least 250 pounds of gas in the truck, I’m a 200 pounder, my wife is 140, our kids are 50 (each - as of today), we could easily have a few hundred pounds of gear, an 80 pound black lab... you can see that we’re going to be way over the payload limit.

And that’s with a 1-ton truck!

So.... how do you pull this off? Do you have to go to a 1-ton dually?

[Grit_dog]

Aaaaand we're off! It's a shortbed camper the OP is talking about and pulling a little boat behind it!

F450....can I get a 550....how bout a 650......no, 750....

[jimh406]

A F450 doesn’t typically have more payload than a F350. I don’t know what state you are in, but some states allow you to license a higher weight. Of course, that only works if you can safely do it.

Depending on how it is configured (gasoline models are generally lighter), other DRWs will have higher payloads. For the most part, the GVWR of all of the DRWs is 14000 if they have a bed. So, you are talking 14000-weight of truck for the payload.

The chassis models have higher GVWRs for the most part. You could add a custom bed or adapt a pickup bed if you really wanted.

[Grit_dog]

Don't mind Kayteg, he's just ornery...
Now lets see a pic of that X10!
X2 here

[TruckCamperNoob]

Huh? @kayteg1 what are you so mad about? I'm just asking for opinions - got yours, thanks. If you re-read my message I literally said the salesman is dead wrong, so take a chill pill.

My point is that even with a dually 1-ton diesel, you're still potentially over the limit and I don't know how much more truck you can even buy (I haven't looked into a Ford F-450, but I think I gotta draw the line somewhere hah!). For instance:

GMC 3500 DRW payload: 5,262

Wet camper weight: 3,300 pounds
Boat tongue weight: 500 pounds (minimum, plus the effect of a 24" hitch extension)
Stinger/hitch: 150 (?) pounds
40 gallons truck gas: 240 pounds
Boat gear: 200 pounds
Camping gear: 300 pounds?
Driver: 225 pounds
Wife: 140 pounds
Kid 1: 50 pounds
Kid 2: 50 pounds
Kid gear: 100 pounds
Black lab: 80 pounds

= 5,335 pounds payload, i.e. over the limit for a dually.

So, since people definitely do this, how do they do it? I know these are not the smallest campers and not the smallest boats, but they are by no means the biggest either, so I'm just trying to use good middle-of-the-road numbers.

FWIW, I am looking at a Lance 855S. The guy I'd be buying from put it on a RAM 3500 and towed a Sanger boat at exactly the same weight as mine. He said it towed beautifully. I pointed out he was probably illegal. He didn't even know that.

[Grit_dog]

jimh425 wrote:

TruckCamperNoob wrote:
Setting the legality of it aside, he said he was "100% confident" that if I bought a 1-ton diesel and installed airbags, loaded it up with the TC and the boat, and drove it over the mountains in our area I would be perfectly happy with how the truck performed (none of this first-gear, 30mph hazards-on nonsense). Thoughts?

I agree it could probably be legal. The question is will the tires hold up etc. The airbags will not increase the payload since the limiting factor for SRWs generally turns out to be the tires. The airbags can level the vehicle but can also make the vehicle unstable if too much air is added.

Then, what happens if you decide the most minimum camper isn’t big enough? You’ll immediately be way over the safety factor which is also the case if you simply decide to carry more stuff. It seems as is, you are planning on best case with smallest camper on the smallest truck that can possibly work with the smallest kids and no friends.

Since it doesn’t seem like you have the truck, do yourself a favor and go DRW, and you will be pretty well future proofed.

Not future proofing isn't automatically bad. My kids are 14& 17. Same size camper....
ANd it's only a question if the tires will hold air if you're a keyboard warrior and not a do'er.

[Grit_dog]

JIMNLIN wrote:
1.Every vehicles FAWR/RAWR is on the trucks certification sticker on the trucks drives side door post. Most 3500 srw GM is 7050 rawr.

2. Weights on a truck are scaled at the tire/road surface so drop by a set of CAT scales and weigh your trucks front and rear axle separately. Simply subtract the rear axle number from 7050.
JMO but your going to be close to max RAWR load before adding the boat. A RAWR can be the lessor of the tire/wheel/axle assy/ rear spring pack. Most of newer gen truck wheels or spring pack can be the weak link.
Lots of one ton SRW truck owners go with a 19.5" tires/wheels and air bag system for more load carrying ability. This doesn't increase the trucks FAWR or RAWR (especially tires) which is used for a legal load limits.

Reading comprehension....he doesn't have the truck yet!

[Grit_dog]

jdc1 wrote:
That tongue weight is probably light. Add in everything you'll be loading in the boat and camper = larger truck or lighter TC.

It's not unless youre a MC expert as well.

[Kayteg1]

TruckCamperNoob wrote:


Setting the legality of it aside, he said he was "100% confident" that if I bought a 1-ton diesel and installed airbags, loaded it up with the TC and the boat, and drove it over the mountains in our area I would be perfectly happy with how the truck performed (none of this first-gear, 30mph hazards-on nonsense). Thoughts?

Yeah, trust the salesman, he knows what he is talking about.
It should not take that much brain to figure out that air bags will not increase your tire rating and will not make wheel bearings bigger.
I gave you sample what you need to calculate for real life situation.
You choose to not see reality.
go figure.

[Grit_dog]

Heavier camper (4500lb + full), heavier truck (3/4 ton), heavier boat (around 6000 including trailer) heavier tongue weight.
Tow it all over the western states. Only slow down and downshift out of 6th if EGT's are getting too high. 2' solid bar hitch extension stuffed in the factory hitch. Handles better with the boat hooked up than not.
Don't have a pic of them together atm.
Yes a dually would be ideal, but this has been working for many thousands of miles and years.
You'll get roasted on this site for anything less than a F450 for what you're proposing. PM me if you want to actually discuss it and can't handle the ole codgers here!

[tlowe43q]

Ditto on the NEVER hear!!!

Don't even consider a SRW.

[jimh406]

TruckCamperNoob wrote:
Setting the legality of it aside, he said he was "100% confident" that if I bought a 1-ton diesel and installed airbags, loaded it up with the TC and the boat, and drove it over the mountains in our area I would be perfectly happy with how the truck performed (none of this first-gear, 30mph hazards-on nonsense). Thoughts?

I agree it could probably be legal. The question is will the tires hold up etc. The airbags will not increase the payload since the limiting factor for SRWs generally turns out to be the tires. The airbags can level the vehicle but can also make the vehicle unstable if too much air is added.

Then, what happens if you decide the most minimum camper isn’t big enough? You’ll immediately be way over the safety factor which is also the case if you simply decide to carry more stuff. It seems as is, you are planning on best case with smallest camper on the smallest truck that can possibly work with the smallest kids and no friends.

Since it doesn’t seem like you have the truck, do yourself a favor and go DRW, and you will be pretty well future proofed.

[JIMNLIN]

1.Every vehicles FAWR/RAWR is on the trucks certification sticker on the trucks drives side door post. Most 3500 srw GM is 7050 rawr.

2. Weights on a truck are scaled at the tire/road surface so drop by a set of CAT scales and weigh your trucks front and rear axle separately. Simply subtract the rear axle number from 7050.
JMO but your going to be close to max RAWR load before adding the boat. A RAWR can be the lessor of the tire/wheel/axle assy/ rear spring pack. Most of newer gen truck wheels or spring pack can be the weak link.
Lots of one ton SRW truck owners go with a 19.5" tires/wheels and air bag system for more load carrying ability. This doesn't increase the trucks FAWR or RAWR (especially tires) which is used for a legal load limits.

[TruckCamperNoob]

Appreciate all the help so far!!

Lwiddis wrote:
"we’d have 500 pounds available for all passengers, fuel, and gear."

An unrealistic number for passengers, fuel and gear IMO. Four very skinny people is 500 pounds (125 each) without adding fuel and gear. Soon those kids will want to bring their bicycles, baseball gear, a friend etc.

I agree, it's not very much and between myself and fuel alone, would exceed it.

joerg68 wrote:
Pay less attention to the payload and more to the rear axle weight rating (RAWR), especially on a SRW truck.
A TC usually puts most or all of its weight on the rear axle. If the CoG of the camper is behind the axle, it will even transfer weight from the front to the rear, effectively making the front axle lighter.
The tongue weight of the trailer is also carried by the rear axle, amplified by distance.
On a SRW truck, the RAWR is usually limited by the load rating of the rear tires. At some point, no tires with a higher load rating are available.
A DRW truck has twice as many tires in the back, which translates to roughly twice the capacity.
Edit: with a TC and a trailer you tend to be pushing (or exceeding) the capabilities of many trucks. Calculate your weights conservatively. Things tend to be a lot heavier than you anticipate. Wherever possible, get actual weights from a scale.

Ahh... okay, this is kind of what I have been wondering about because I didn't really think payload was the only story here. A couple questions:

1) I haven't seen the RAWR published for (for instance), a GMC 3500 1-ton diesel short bed SRW. Where do you find it?

2) How do you calculate the actual payload and RAWR weight impact of a trailer on a tongue extension? It occurs to me that if you put the tongue weight way back there on a 4' lever arm, it's going to have a different impact than what it would be if it were right on the hitch, so how do you know what it is?

*******

In other news, I just called up the huge volume truck dealer in my area. I stumped the first sales guy with my questions about payload, so he transferred me to their "most experienced" sales person. That salesperson was adamant that the way to achieve what I am contemplating is by adding airbags to a 1-ton diesel truck, that it would increase the payload, and that it would be perfectly legal.

He might be right that it would *effectively* increase the payload and make the rig comfortable to drive, but I think he's dead wrong that it would be legal if the stock payload is exceeded (i.e. adding airbags doesn't "legally" increase the weight rating) - can anyone comment on this?

Setting the legality of it aside, he said he was "100% confident" that if I bought a 1-ton diesel and installed airbags, loaded it up with the TC and the boat, and drove it over the mountains in our area I would be perfectly happy with how the truck performed (none of this first-gear, 30mph hazards-on nonsense). Thoughts?

[Kayteg1]

darren66 wrote:
I rarely hear people say "man, I bought too much truck!".

I actually NEVER hear it.

[darren66]

I have a similar setup to what you are contemplating.

I regularly pull my 2005 Mastercraft X30 (slightly larger and heavier than your X10). That fact, plus my SRW truck, steered me away from any TC with a slide. When I was shopping, I considered the 855s. I think you will find that almost any TC with a slide will tip the scales at greater than 4,000 lbs when loaded up with gear, water, etc.

I also agree, the tongue weight is considerably less than the typical 10% factor used, a good thing since you will most likely need to use an extension. Unless you are getting a superhitch, the extension will greatly limit the amount of tongue weight you can place on your hitch.

In the end, I ended up going with my Wolf Creek 850. I am still within tire limits and RAWR, but over in GVWR when loaded up. Anything larger than what I have and I would be way over both by at least 1,500 lbs

Looking back, I wish I would have bought the dually that was sitting right next to my truck on the lot (it was even the same price). I rarely hear people say "man, I bought too much truck!".