TT Upgrade Suggestions: TV: 2019 Nissan Armada

[campbikemom]

Hi all! I have been lurking on various camper forums for a bit and would like some input. I know a lot will be based on personal preferences, but I’m having a hard time narrowing down an exact floorplan and manufacturer/brand so I would love to hear everyone’s experience.

We have a 2019 Nissan Armada SL as our tow vehicle. I know that folks who frequent RV forums are borderline rabid about buy the tow vehicle that meets the needs of the camper you want, but I think that is unrealistic for anyone that doesn’t have money growing on trees. Price, features, and needs of the family come first, then finding the best camper to match the tow vehicle (in my opinion). For us, the Armada hit the most marks.

Would like to keep a new camper price around $20,000 or less, which will price us out of most fiberglass trailers. 20-30 nights a year does not justify spending more for us.

Basic facts about the Armada:
Max towing: 8500 lbs
Max tongue weight: 850 lbs.
Payload: We’ll say 1500 (there is a range up to about 1750, but we’ll just go with the low end)

Basic facts about our family:
Family of 4 (kids are currently 6 and 4) plus a German Shepherd. We started out as tent campers/backpackers. Then went to a 1980’s Jayco popup towed by a Pilot. We decided to push the limits and get a small hardside (2017 Starfcraft AR-One 19BHLE that has a GVWR right around 4400lbs) knowing we were going to be putting the Pilot through hell and it would be a short-term solution (it struggled, as expected. This year we traded in the Pilot and got the Armada. We are fairly basic campers and primarily use the camper for storage, washing dishes, sometimes cooking (usually use the fire), showering. We’ll never have a TV in a camper and usually only spent time inside when the weather is cold and damp (we are in NY, though, so the good weather camping season isn’t very long). We do a lot of state park camping and usually do not have hookups of any kind. To date we’ve always filled up water when we got to our location, but now that we have a beefier tow vehicle we might even entertain boondocking. We are mostly long weekend campers, but part of that has been restricted by the Pilot in the past. But we usually save our longer trips and vacation time for cross country and international. We also are bike racers and bringing a camper along to races (even if they are day races) is nice if the weather is ****.

Things I would like to see improved on over our current floorplan:
- More seating. When it’s a “stay inside” day it’s very cramped on the dinette and I hate sand in the bed ?
- Larger fridge. The under the counter fridge fills up very quickly and realistically we can only do 3 days of food with drinks in a cooler.
- Bathroom sink and medicine cabinet.
- Would like to have windows that open on top and bottom bunks (know you can add them, but getting them upfront would be great)
- I also like dinette storage that has pull out bins versus lifting the seat up.
- If we go with a slide, I do not like elevated slides . I like them to be as flush with the camper floor as possible.
- An oven would be great to have although I’m pretty good baking in the dutch oven on the fire.

I know Starcraft in general has mixed reviews, but we have had great luck with this particular camper. I am also super impressed with the amount of storage they have managed to cram into such a small space. Although I pack smartly, I’ve never felt like I have to make hard choices on what to bring or have to use the Pilot as significant overflow. I have definitely noticed that in camper brands in general some models have good reviews and others you can’t find a good review about.

When we bought the 19BHLE we really liked the 26 non-slide bunk house models and said at the time that we wanted that to be our next camper, especially since the price is almost the same as what we picked up our current camper for. However, almost all of these campers across brands do not have a pantry or storage when you first open the door (e.g. a floor cabinet to the left of the door). Our current camper is so tiny I cannot imagine LOSING storage that I really like. There are a couple exceptions to the pantry, like the Shasta 26BH. But the Shasta lacks ANY window in the top bunk and does not have an oven. Also, now that our kids have gotten bigger it seems like this floorplan is pretty cramped. This floorplan is usually around a GVWR of 6000-6500lbs or less and is a hair under 30’.

I REALLY like the Jayco SLX 298BH, but that floorplan has already been retired and we probably won’t be buying until next year. We also wanted to stick to 30’ or under, but this trailer has a ton for the weight and overall size in my opinion. It lacks a medicine cabinet and a window that opens in the top bunk, but with all the extra storage I felt like these were minor quibbles. But 32’ is a long trailer! GVWR of 6250lbs, hitch weight of 555lbs.

We have also been considering the floorplans that have smaller slides like the Jayco SLX 242BS, Starcraft Autumn Ridge 26BHS. Those seem to be around a GVWR of 7000-7500 lbs, have a hitch weight in the mid-600’s, and are around 30’. Yes, this last group is probably pushing the *ideal* circumstances for hauling, but most of these should still be doable if we are smart about how we travel (not filling water up unless absolutely necessary and then only doing it part-way, etc.). However, I would love to hear from people who were in a similar spot and either regretted it or felt it was fine.

Additionally, if anyone has any opinions or input on having a small dinette plus a couch versus having one big u-shaped dinette I would appreciate any feedback. I know our single small dinette is not cutting it, but having a slide and a large u-shaped dinette might be “just right.” I have looked at a million floorplans and these are the ones that I am leaning towards, but if you have any other floorplan suggestions based on what I’ve described I would love to hear them. There is something about appliances in the slide I don’t love, but I also don’t’ have a solid reason for disliking this setup.

[handye9]

campbikemom wrote:
Basic facts about the Armada:
Max towing: 8500 lbs
Max tongue weight: 850 lbs.
Payload: We’ll say 1500 (there is a range up to about 1750, but we’ll just go with the low end)

Basic facts about our family:
Family of 4 (kids are currently 6 and 4) plus a German Shepherd. We started out as tent campers/backpackers. Then went to a 1980’s Jayco popup towed by a Pilot. We decided to push the limits and get a small hardside (2017 Starfcraft AR-One 19BHLE that has a GVWR right around 4400lbs) knowing we were going to be putting the Pilot through hell and it would be a short-term solution (it struggled, as expected. This year we traded in the Pilot and got the Armada. We are fairly basic campers and primarily use the camper for storage, washing dishes, sometimes cooking (usually use the fire), showering. We’ll never have a TV in a camper and usually only spent time inside when the weather is cold and damp (we are in NY, though, so the good weather camping season isn’t very long). We do a lot of state park camping and usually do not have hookups of any kind. To date we’ve always filled up water when we got to our location, but now that we have a beefier tow vehicle we might even entertain boondocking. We are mostly long weekend campers, but part of that has been restricted by the Pilot in the past. But we usually save our longer trips and vacation time for cross country and international. We also are bike racers and bringing a camper along to races (even if they are day races) is nice if the weather is ****.

No need to guess at your payload, it is printed on your tire / loading sticker (on your drivers door post). It will have a number for max occupant / cargo weight (AKA payload). That number is specific to your Armada, as it left the factory, with all of it's installed options.

Things that use up your payload capacity are aftermarket (anything that wasn't in the vehicle when it left the factory) accessories, people, pets, trailer tongue weight, added hitch / anti sway equipment, and any cargo in or on the vehicle.

Forget about the advertised max tow weight. It was not calculated with a family of four and a german shepherd, along with their associated comforts. You will run out of payload, before you get close to that max tow weight. Plus, the closer you get to that "max" weight, the more unpleasant your towing can be.

The average load of dishes, pots and pans, bedding, toys, BBQ equipment, camping gear, water, and groceries is 800 - 1000 lbs.

Forget about advertised tongue weight on travel trailers, it goes up on dealers lot, and goes up more when you load it. The average trailer tongue weight is 12 - 13 percent of loaded trailer weight. Not a constant number, it fluctuates during every trip.

Holding tanks (black, grey, and fresh), depending on their location, can have a significant impact on tongue weight. Behind the axles, they will take weight off the tongue, in front of the axles they add tongue weight. My tongue weight, for example, can fluctuate as much as 225 lbs, just from holding tank levels. My trailer is a front kitchen model with fresh tank behind the axles and a galley (second grey) tank up front. My tongue weight is heaviest with empty fresh water / full galley tank, and I've been in situations (no dump facility nearby) where I had to tow that way. You mentioned boondocking, you'd have to tow with full tanks.

If you take your specific payload and subtract family / pets / cargo weight, subtract 100 lbs for hitch equipment, and what is left is available for carrying tongue weight. Divide that available payload by .13, it will give you a ball park figure for loaded (keyword = loaded) trailer weight that puts you at max capacity. Give yourself room for those kids getting bigger and allow for some tongue weight fluctuation.

[GrandpaKip]

You can find out the payload of your Armada from a sticker on the driver side door jamb. It will say something like, “The total cargo capacity should not exceed xxx pounds”.
Work out what weight your family and their stuff in the Armada will be and subtract from the posted number. Then subtract about 100 pounds for a weight distribution system. What’s left is what tongue weight you can put on the hitch.
An easy way to get ideas of suitable campers is to take 15% of the Gross Vehicle Weight (which gives you an idea of max tongue weight) and see if that puts you over your rated payload.
I have a feeling you will find that you are going to have to scale back some of the campers you have listed.
For example, a 7000 pound max gross weight will eat up between 700 and 1050 pounds of payload. The lower amount is the minimum of 10% tongue weight.
Everybody almost always runs out of payload before the max tow weight of the tow vehicle. Do not pay attention to the listed tongue weight. It is almost always too low.

[campinia]

We bought a Passport 239ML SL SERIES earlier this summer for our family of 4 of which two are teens and not little anymore! The weight, size, and wants that you expressed seem to all be covered with this camper unless you really want a slide. It would pull well behind the Armada I think. MSRP is listed as $21,900, but, you should be able to get it for 18-19K.

[Lwiddis]

“Those seem to be around a GVWR of 7000-7500 lbs, have a hitch weight in the mid-600’s, and are around 30”

You don’t want a TT weighing 7000 to 7500 pounds to have only mid-600 tongue weight. Seven hundred minimum to a thousand is the safe way.

[noteven]

Maybe a v-nose design?

I know v-nose cargo trailers pull easier than barn door front designs.

[Lwiddis]

"To date we’ve always filled up water when we got to our location"

Did you sanitize the fresh water tank and lines at home then drain the tank and refill at the park? That can work unless the park has a water issue and shuts off the flow.

[campbikemom]

Ha, that video is hilarious! That's us and camping to this day. I wish I could design my own trailer for a reasonable cost that is minus things like an entertainment center!

[noteven]

Can’t offer a lot of opinion about the best rig for todays young families - when our kids were young ones camping activies included paddling canoes, fishing, ridin bikes, the shoreline, watching critters, campfire cooking.

But the Nissan can pull on things:

Nissan Patrol (Armada) vs Ford Raptor 🙂