Weights. Am I missing something?

[Bachus]

Hi All;

We are looking to purchase a truck camper after many years of having a fifth wheel. Enjoyed the FW, but want something that is smaller and more versatile where we can get into some of the great State and Provincial Parks. Here's the dilemma:
Truck- 2011 RAM 3500 SLT SRW, 6.7 CTD, 4WD, short box
GVWR 10100 lbs
CCC (as per door sticker) 2846 lbs
RAWR 6200 lbs
FAWR 5500 lbs
Centre of gravity 28 to 44 inches (based on RAM body builder guide)

Based on those numbers, I can only carry a very small (ie 1/2" ton) TC. That seems ridiculous given that the truck is such a beast. I like the Northern Lite 8-11SXE wet and the Lance 855S and 850, but fear they will exceed what the numbers say. And the Arctic Fox 811 looks goods until you factor in the "mandatory" option package that adds 595 lbs.

Will adding Timbrens get me where I need to be? Or is my one ton truck really only suitable for a 1/2 ton TC? Seems odd to me.

Any help from the wise is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Dean

[woodhog]

OP (Dean) pse check your private msg's...

[run100]

To the OP ...
Although I can't comment on Ram and it's capabilities, we are running our F350 stock (factory ordered specifically to carry our camper) and it handles the 855S extremely well. We are very pleased with the set-up.

Good luck with your analysis and future decisions.

[run100]

towpro wrote:
Got to love it. i was looking through the ram body guides for your year and I see "the following truck models are NOT recommended for slide-in camper applications: Dodge ram, All 4x4 models equipped with Snow plow prep package". click here

I had a 2015 dually that came with a truck camper slip that said "not recommended". we never knew for sure but this group thought it was because of the snow plow prep package. but now I see it in print.

PS: A snow plow prep group includes a bigger alternator and a transfer case skid plate. Guess they don't want you snow plowing with your camper loaded.

Same on F350 for our model year, perhaps other model years too. You could not equip the truck with the snow plow package and the camper package. Of course, our choice of package was an easy decision.

[jimh406]

Many people don't want to admit you can go over a DRW GVWR, too. I carried my current TC 8 1/2 years on a SRW. Sure, the DRW carries it better for the last 5 years.

If I had traded the TC for the heaviest 11 1/2 TC, I'd be in close to the same position as the SRW combination just with two more wheels.

[specta]

That all makes sense.

A close friend was the Lance Dist here in Utah for many many years, I trust him more than anyone else.

He sat in many meetings where Ford and Lance engineers discussed truck "real world" capabilities. There's a larger safety margin built into trucks and tires than people realize.

I am over weight a tad and he told me not to worry about it.

If I was over weight enough for it to cause problems or be a safety issue he would be the first one to tell me so.

I bought my current camper back in July. I did the walk thru with him on the phone. He knew exactly what I was buying and the truck I was going to carry it with. He reassured me I was OK.

[Grit_dog]

To the OP, bottom line, the 10,100gvw of your 2011 1 ton Ram is one of those super artificially low gvwr's and not even remotely a realistic indicator of how much the truck will haul capably and safely.
For cheap easy tire/wheel upgrades, I 100% like the low cost and convienence of newer OE takeoff wheels, with or without tires, if the tires aren't to your liking (cheep OE tires).
Similar to tire ratings, I surmise from a great deal of experience "abusing" light duty trucks, that rims, especially OE who have a high liability with critical component failures, are designed with a very large factor of safety.
You can beef up ALOT of rims for less than the cost of even a couple lawsuit defenses.

[Grit_dog]

That said, I prefer to be much closer to the load rating with the TC on our personal truck.
1. Becasue my overloading follies on work trucks are relatively local driving and typically pulling a trailer, where a rear blowout is not as much of a safety concern or inconvienence.
2. Because the nature of hauling a TC being very top heavy puts significantly greater short term tire loads on due to the location (height of the load)
3. I don't care about my company truck rims (if I save $1500 I trucking fees compared to a cheap rim and tire replacement if I have an issue). Economically it would have still cost more than the blown tire to use another option. (Yes, logistically, there are other solutions, but when you're juggling the logistics of dozens of different things daily, the priority of my work truck tires is pretty low on the list.)
4. Loosing a back tire doesn't really scare me from a safety standpoint. Others experience or opinions on this one may certainly differ.

[Grit_dog]

specta wrote:


I couldn't find any F rated 17" tires and neither could my dealer.

I was contemplating looking for some 18" OE take-offs but ended up with a set of 265/70R17 Michelin Agilis CrossClimate tires.

Still E rated but I'm happy with them.

I'm not over weight by much and not worried about it at all.

There hasn't been higher weight rated 17" truck tires produced for years. Why? Have no idea. I usta have some 295/70/17s that were rated for 3950lbs iirc.
No more.
To tire load ratings, my personal experience is tires are rated very conservatively with a huge factor of safety. Reason? Mfgs liability. It's a critical component that customers will abuse greatly and the liability of many blowout lawsuits is worth making tires much stronger than their rated weights.
Lots of talk about it and a couple examples here of blowouts. Most all of is have had tires blowout (except Jaycocreek but now he's jynxed himself by talking about it, lol).
But few if any of us do a forensic analysis on the cause. Simple overloading is not likely the root cause though. Old tires, tread or belt separation, road hazards, unseen previous tire damage, air pressure..many causes.
I'm in the somewhat unique situation of having been assigned many 1/2 ton trucks to do heavy civil construction work (not that unique, but most private owners or smarter people would use a heavier truck for some of these tasks). I've taken to, out of convienence/cost/necessity, airing up P or XL rated tires over their max psi rating to hold up a load or trailer weight. I've actually tried (sort of) to blow up P rated tires, running them 60 psi hauling heavy trailers for months at a time. Result? No issues.
Not saying it's right, but the end result gives me great comfort that certainly at or a little over the weight rating and within specified max pressure is not taxing the tires very bad.

[SugarHillCTD]

Hey Dean,

We are now pulling a short 5th wheel (the boss's idea) but before this had a Lance 855s then an Eagle Cap 850. Both very heavy but the truck in our signature handled them well.

We went with OEM steel wheels and mounted 4 Nitto Dura Grappler highway tread 285/75-17 tires rated at 3970# each. Timbrens on the rear axle.

We traveled all over the northeast US and Canadian Maritimes and never had a problem.

Good luck with your decision. You have a good truck for a TC once you beef up the tires and suspension.

Weight police, take the day off.

[bwlyon]

Welcome to the adventures of trying to match a camper to your truck and being within the specs. With that diesel on board it will be difficult. The lance 850 and northern lite 8-11 will get you close, but when you fill them with water, batteries, propane, clothes, gear, and groceries you’ll likely be over weight per specs of your truck. The lance 855s and AF 811 will make you overweight just by putting the camper on dry! The AF being the heavier of the two! I have a 15 Ram Megacab SB 3500 SRW 4x4 with the 6.4 gas with payload of 4069lbs printed on the door sticker, and thought I’d hit the jackpot! Well long story short we bought a Chalet S85RS (close in specs to the AF 811) thinking the Manufactures sticker of 3600lbs wet would put us on the money as far as being within the trucks specs. WRONG! Wound up with a 4000 lb camper that weighs just shy of 5000lbs fully wet and ready to travel. GVWR 11000, actual weight 13000. GRAWR 7000, actual weight 8700! Tires rated at 7200 for the pair! I’m over specs everywhere but the front axle and front tires. With that said, we’ve Halle’s this camper 10000 miles without any problems thus far and no tire failures. I’d love to have a dually under our camper but can’t make myself spend the money. What I am considering is adding a set of Rickson 19.5 wheels and 245/70/19.5 tires for peace of mind. Good luck with finding a camper that meets your needs.

[Bachus]

OP here again.

I did a bit of math and if I cough up for some 18" rims I could put on Michelin LT285/65/R18E that are rated at 3640 lbs at 80 psi. The circumference on those is almost exactly the same as the stock 17 tires so I wouldn't have to adjust anything else and could keep my existing 17's for winter. I've never been happy with the stock rims anyway. Also I got some great info from the RAM Bodybuilder site which gives all of the specs on front base weight (4428) and rear base weight (2727), so I think the upgrade to the 18" rims and tires and we should be good up to about a 4000 lb TC.
You can really go down the rabbit hole with this stuff!

[specta]

Bachus wrote:
OP here.
The rear axle is definitely the AAM 11.5. Rated to 10000 lbs. So no worries there. I need to beef up the tires. Rims are called out as 17 x 8.0. Not sure if I can find a F rated tire to fit that. I don't really want to get into new rims if I can help it. Especially since I have a summer set and a winter set.

I couldn't find any F rated 17" tires and neither could my dealer.

I was contemplating looking for some 18" OE take-offs but ended up with a set of 265/70R17 Michelin Agilis CrossClimate tires.

Still E rated but I'm happy with them.

I'm not over weight by much and not worried about it at all.

[Bachus]

OP here.
The rear axle is definitely the AAM 11.5. Rated to 10000 lbs. So no worries there. I need to beef up the tires. Rims are called out as 17 x 8.0. Not sure if I can find a F rated tire to fit that. I don't really want to get into new rims if I can help it. Especially since I have a summer set and a winter set.

[hedge]

We don't get the piece of the paper in the glove box in Canada. We do get the yellow cargo capacity sticker on the door pillar which is simply the GVW - the weight of the truck.

Best check your jurisdiction, everyone gives advice based on where they live not where you live. Some places such as BC do go by GVW in the rare event you get checked, no idea on Ontario.

[Bachus]

OP here. Thanks for all the input.

Double checked the axle ratings:
Front 5500 lbs
Rear 6200 lbs

With LT265/70/R17E tires on 17x8" rims with fronts inflated to 60 and rears to 75 psi.

So that might explain part of the de-rating. Michelin Defender LT265/70/R17E tires are rated at 3195lbs each at 80 psi which would only give you 6390 lbs carrying capacity. So it seems the rim/tires are the weak link.