I have another thread going over on the 5th wheel forum as my wife and I contemplate retirement (2nd time around) and we consider going full-time (or most-time) in a fifth wheel. ken56 has a good thread going on this forum started earlier today about weights and capacities on his '14 Silverado 1500. I also pulled my truck across the scales yesterday on the way home. Here's the combination of the results and the specs from the manuals and stickers:2013 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab SLT, Duramax/Allison Rating Spec Scales* Reserve CapacityGCWR 24,500 7,520 16,980 GVWR 10,000 7,520 2,480 GAWR FRT 5,200 4,440 760 GAWR RR 6,200 3,080 3,120 Tires 6,390 3,080 3,310 Max 5th wheel 17,400 Max pin 3,000 * Includes: Fuel 255 Driver 208 Undercover tonneau 90 I estimate that removing the tonneau and installing a slider hitch would net another 160 lbs. and I'd need to figure in my wife and miscellaneous stuff that would get thrown in the truck, as well. The question is this: how close to the remaining 16,980 GCWR and 2,480 on the GVWR (although there are 3,120 lbs. remaining for the rear axle) would you go? I grew up in an earlier day and time with a father and grandfather that would advocate not pushing the limits on equipment. I also used to fly a lot (in the '70s before there were computers and apps to do things for you) and with that mode of transportation, if you didn't calculate your weights and density altitude numbers, it could cost you your life - not just break something on the truck or void the warranty. How about you? Would you stay a certain percent under the calculations or would you consider fivers that would take you right up to the numbers? Am I looking at the right numbers or would you see it a different way? I value your input.Rob

Are we looking at this from a legal, or a rvnet wt police standpoint?If a legal, you would have potentially upwards of 20K you can gross your truck at, not that I would recomend this. Going to axel limits is also not too much of an issue, ie over gvwr. Did that with my family of 6 on board two different trucks. Going over gcwr is nothing more than a warrenty issue, so over under, no big. I was also over gcwr in my last truck by typically 4K lbs, but it did better performance wise than the previous truck with the correct gcwr.....In fact, I have had a few rigs with lower gcwr's than others, and did better pulling etc..... so gcwr in my boat any how, is nothing more than a warrenty/performance factor, where you do not know the performance specs, nor will you ever. I personally will not tow more than 2x the grawr of the truck. For your rig, that would be 12-13K lbs, as long as I can stay under the axel wt ratings. Many on here thru the years have loaded there DA 2500's upwards of 16K of 5w, pulled great, but bottomed out the rear suspension in dips, going over speed bumps etc. I would suggest you stay at 5500 or less, other wise you will also bottom out at times. Reality, there is only what you feel is best. Legally, an LEO can pull you over, and if they feel the need to, can sit you at the side of the road. Weight WILL NOT be one of them. This is from being pulled over, taking classes on what is and not legal for using pickups in commercial settings, which personal use has to, and gets the same rules and laws to follow.Marty

Second Chance wrote:I have another thread going over on the 5th wheel forum as my wife and I contemplate retirement (2nd time around) and we consider going full-time (or most-time) in a fifth wheel. ken56 has a good thread going on this forum started earlier today about weights and capacities on his '14 Silverado 1500. I also pulled my truck across the scales yesterday on the way home. Here's the combination of the results and the specs from the manuals and stickers:2013 GMC Sierra 2500HD Crew Cab SLT, Duramax/Allison Rating Spec Scales* Reserve CapacityGCWR 24,500 7,520 16,980 GVWR 10,000 7,520 2,480 GAWR FRT 5,200 4,440 760 GAWR RR 6,200 3,080 3,120 Tires 6,390 3,080 3,310 Max 5th wheel 17,400 Max pin 3,000 * Includes: Fuel 255 Driver 208 Undercover tonneau 90 I estimate that removing the tonneau and installing a slider hitch would net another 160 lbs. and I'd need to figure in my wife and miscellaneous stuff that would get thrown in the truck, as well. The question is this: how close to the remaining 16,980 GCWR and 2,480 on the GVWR (although there are 3,120 lbs. remaining for the rear axle) would you go? I grew up in an earlier day and time with a father and grandfather that would advocate not pushing the limits on equipment. I also used to fly a lot (in the '70s before there were computers and apps to do things for you) and with that mode of transportation, if you didn't calculate your weights and density altitude numbers, it could cost you your life - not just break something on the truck or void the warranty. How about you? Would you stay a certain percent under the calculations or would you consider fivers that would take you right up to the numbers? Am I looking at the right numbers or would you see it a different way? I value your input.RobI'm far from an expert or all that knowledgable in the 5er area, but I think you might be cutting it close on two main areas ... rear tire capacity and your estimate of pin wt. Pin wts. can approach 25% and at a 17K 5er that could approach 4,000+ lbs. Higher capacity tires would IMO be a serious consideration if nothing more for a little more reserve capacity with the potential high and yet unknown exact pin wts when you load things up with the 5er hitch, passengers and misc. cargo.I think you need to consider being heavier than a typical weekender if you are going to do this full time since things tend to add up fast weight wise.Personally, I think a 5er maxing out in the 15K range might be as big as I would want to go for the best overall safe and satisifying towing experience.Larry

I'd load it up to the GCWR or over. I run trucks over all the time with no problems. GVWR I would also run right up to the rating and over. I ignore GVWR and look at axle and tire ratings. That's how it was done when I was a commercial truck driver. If it works for the trucking industry it will work with an RV.Going by your rear axle rating you could carry about 3,000 pounds of pin weight. However, the 11.5" AAM axle in your truck is rated by AAM at just over 10,000 pounds. If you add 19.5" wheels and tires and either upgrade the springs or add airbags you could carry much more weight in the rear.If you're going to spend the money on wheel, tires, springs, air bags, etc. You would probably be better off just trading the truck for a dually.In my own '05 Chevy dually I normally tow up to 16,000 pounds the rear receiver (aftermarket) while the truck may weigh up to 10,000. This is for work pulling equipment trailers and hauling tools. When I use this truck for RVing I put my TC on the back. The truck with family and camper and pulling my boat weighs about 13,500. The GVWR is 11,400 but I'm not over the tire or axle ratings. I have driven many thousands of miles safely this way.There are, however, a lot of people who will swear I'm going to kill someone. What they don't realize is that many many "hotshot" type truck drivers haul this way legally with dually pick-ups all day long and go thru scales, DOT checks, etc.

Forget that MFG. magical Tow Rating of 17,500#You will reach trucks GVWR, RAWR and REAR Tire Load Capacity long before ever reaching that Tow Rating (way too many caveats in the fine print).You have a 2500 truck......You have a 10,000 GVWRYou have a 6200 RAWRYou need to look at a 13K GVWR 5vr (MAX) as the pin weight will be 2600# which will place you at your trucks ratings.OR forget about those ratings and have at it.

KD4UPL wrote:I'd load it up to the GCWR or over. I run trucks over all the time with no problems. GVWR I would also run right up to the rating and over. I ignore GVWR and look at axle and tire ratings. That's how it was done when I was a commercial truck driver. If it works for the trucking industry it will work with an RV.Going by your rear axle rating you could carry about 3,000 pounds of pin weight. However, the 11.5" AAM axle in your truck is rated by AAM at just over 10,000 pounds. If you add 19.5" wheels and tires and either upgrade the springs or add airbags you could carry much more weight in the rear.If you're going to spend the money on wheel, tires, springs, air bags, etc. You would probably be better off just trading the truck for a dually.In my own '05 Chevy dually I normally tow up to 16,000 pounds the rear receiver (aftermarket) while the truck may weigh up to 10,000. This is for work pulling equipment trailers and hauling tools. When I use this truck for RVing I put my TC on the back. The truck with family and camper and pulling my boat weighs about 13,500. The GVWR is 11,400 but I'm not over the tire or axle ratings. I have driven many thousands of miles safely this way.There are, however, a lot of people who will swear I'm going to kill someone. What they don't realize is that many many "hotshot" type truck drivers haul this way legally with dually pick-ups all day long and go thru scales, DOT checks, etc.Theoretically you are correct, However by your own admission you are what is called a Cowboy amongst real Truck Drivers..The Vehicle Manufacturer is the one in collaboration with USDOT to decide on weight and carrying capacity. GVWR is governed to keep a vehicle from becoming a lethal weapon and driven within the safety standards for the vehicle in question. A Commercial Vehicle requires all CV restrictions and Requirements. Whereas a Pick up truck doesn't fall into the same catogary, A hotshot doesn't have to abide by Commercial requirements other than having a DOT physical and keeping a log book while abiding by CDL Hours. In your private Not For Hire vehicle by exceeding GVWR or Tongue Weight and Axle limits you are driving dangerously and if caught will be heavily fined, loose your license and go to jail. There are 50 States and DC to contend with and although you have to abide by your own State other States can and will enforce certain safety regulations for their State. Many States are now requiring Motor homes, TT, 5th wheels etc to stop at scales and CDL inspection stations. I came across this recently in Iowa and Indiana and have heard it is to be adopted in California and Florida with a few States in between.As to putting people in danger, You know the Answer to that and no one but you can or will change your point of view except you.........Keep the shiny side up..

Weights and capacities - Sierra 2500HD D/A | Good Sam Community

jaycocamprs
Explorer
Jun 09, 2014
Second Chance wrote:

The pin weight of our Mountaineer and the hitch would do in that Cargo Capacity, before DW, the dog, and I got in the truck
brulaz
Explorer
Jun 08, 2014
Second Chance wrote:
OK - now I'm more confused than I was before. The payload number on this sticker doesn't jive with the math using the GVWR...

Rob

Makes sense to me.
2705-210(you)-90(tonneau) = 2405#

And you measured 2480# diff from GVWR on the scales.

Close enough for me anyway ...
:)
rhagfo
Explorer III
Jun 08, 2014
Second Chance wrote:
OK - now I'm more confused than I was before. The payload number on this sticker doesn't jive with the math using the GVWR...

Rob

This is what BenK is getting at, the payload sticker is misleading. It usually states at least 400# more than what is real.
This makes even doing the correct order of buy the trailer first then get a TV that can carry it.

Second Chance forget the 80% that D/A will not have issues towing at 100% of capacity.
Second_Chance
Explorer II
Jun 08, 2014
And here's a little spreadsheet I've been using as we window shop:

Rob
Second_Chance
Explorer II
Jun 08, 2014
OK - now I'm more confused than I was before. The payload number on this sticker doesn't jive with the math using the GVWR...

Rob
rhagfo
Explorer III
Jun 08, 2014
BenK wrote:
rhagfo wrote:
snip....

Curb weight is a useless figure in the towing world. Almost as useless as the yellow payload sticker, although the yellow payload sticker does give you an idea of what you can carry. You can't do any real figuring from it. The best weight is the scaled weight of the TV ready to go this is what you have to work with the difference between GVWR and Scaled weight is your payload remaining for tongue or pin weight!!

That is like using DRY weight and DRY pin to figure if the trailer is too big. The ONLY time you can use DRY weights, is if you know very closely what the stuff you load the trailer with weighs, then the pin is still an estimation.

Agree, but 'MOST' advisers here use that as their basis

Why am trying to figure out if I'm wrong using or recommending the
actual weights and not using those labels...as they use the 'curb' as
their basis for the ratings. Really understand, as that is the only
way the OEMs can...as they would have to either actually weigh them
or add up the options for 'that' vehicle.

That then says their label DB now has to have some intelligence to
EACH label vs VIN

I think I see where you are going with this. You are looking to see if the published towing guides are even close to the real world.
In that respect the "Curb Weight" should be a calculation of the GVWR minus the payload listed on the yellow sticker.

While far from the weight police, there are many that want to tow as much as possible without going over any specs. When TV manufactures post optimistic payload and towing capacities. Then RV manufactures post lighter DRY weights than real world, and those looking use those numbers they can easy end up over one or more specs.
BenK
Explorer
Jun 08, 2014
removed
BenK
Explorer
Jun 08, 2014
RV.net's servers are acting up...again...must be backing up or some such
BenK
Explorer
Jun 08, 2014
removed
BenK
Explorer
Jun 08, 2014
rhagfo wrote:
snip....

Curb weight is a useless figure in the towing world. Almost as useless as the yellow payload sticker, although the yellow payload sticker does give you an idea of what you can carry. You can't do any real figuring from it. The best weight is the scaled weight of the TV ready to go this is what you have to work with the difference between GVWR and Scaled weight is your payload remaining for tongue or pin weight!!

That is like using DRY weight and DRY pin to figure if the trailer is too big. The ONLY time you can use DRY weights, is if you know very closely what the stuff you load the trailer with weighs, then the pin is still an estimation.

Agree, but 'MOST' advisers here use that as their basis

Why am trying to figure out if I'm wrong using or recommending the
actual weights and not using those labels...as they use the 'curb' as
their basis for the ratings. Really understand, as that is the only
way the OEMs can...as they would have to either actually weigh them
or add up the options for 'that' vehicle.

That then says their label DB now has to have some intelligence to
EACH label vs VIN