What PU to Buy

So Ford couldn't get a loan from the banks and took loans from the government.

If the bailout of GM and Chrysler is "socialism," how is the government loan to Ford, when they could not get funding elsewhere, not "socialism?"

Give it a rest. Business and government have been in bed together since our country was founded. You better get used to it, as it was that way before you were born and will be that way long after you die, regardless of party or president.

Don't believe me?

Read this part again:

No company was a bigger beneficiary of the DOE’s green car funding initiative than Ford. It received two-thirds of the $8.8 billion loaned under the department’s Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program. Congress appropriated $25 billion for that program in late 2008, during the waning days of the BUSH ADMINISTRATION

Atlee wrote:
When did Ford borrow money from the government. I know for a fact Ford, a little before the crash, had mortgaged the entire company, including the Blue Oval, to fund a lot of R&D and other major projects.

From Forbes:

It’s been three years since General Motors and Chrysler filed for bankruptcy, but with the political season in full swing, the two presidential candidates have put the auto industry bailouts back in the public eye, at least through the November election. Yet there’s only one Detroit automaker still in hock to U.S. taxpayers and – guess what? – it’s not GM or Chrysler.

Ford Motor owes the government $5.9 billion it borrowed in June 2009, the same month GM filed for bankruptcy. By Sept. 15, Ford needs to start paying that money back. In a government filing, the carmaker said $577 million is due within the next year, and the full amount must be paid off by June 15, 2022.

The Obama Administration, dreaming of a million electric cars on the road by 2015, loaned Ford the money to help it pay for development of hybrids and EVs, and to retool its factories to produce smaller, cleaner vehicles. While not characterized as a “bailout” by any means, let’s be honest: Ford’s loan – received at a critical time when other sources of financing weren’t available to automakers or their suppliers – no doubt helped the carmaker survive the industry crisis and contributed to its strong market position today, especially after the Obama Administration finalized tougher fuel economy rules this week.

Indeed, lest we forget: the feds in 2009 were handing out fistfuls of cash to bolster the auto industry, beyond the $64 billion used to bail out GM and Chrysler. Treasury staked another $18.7 billion on rescuing the companies’ auto lending affiliates (it still owns 74% of Ally, formerly known as GMAC). And the Energy Department doled out billions more to Ford and others to preserve auto-making jobs in the U.S. while steering the industry toward cleaner vehicles.

“We have an historic opportunity to help ensure that the next generation of fuel-efficient cars and trucks are made in America,” President Barack Obama said in a statement on June 23, 2009 announcing the loans to Ford and two others. Energy Secretary Steven Chu added: “By supporting key technologies and sound business plans, we can jumpstart the production of fuel efficient vehicles in America. These investments will come back to our country many times over – by creating new jobs, reducing our dependence on oil, and reducing our greenhouse gas emissions.”


No company was a bigger beneficiary of the DOE’s green car funding initiative than Ford. It received two-thirds of the $8.8 billion loaned under the department’s Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing program. Congress appropriated $25 billion for that program in late 2008, during the waning days of the Bush Administration, around the same time the auto company CEOs were getting grilled on Capitol Hill.

The other ATVM recipients were Nissan ($1.6 billion), Tesla Motors ($465 million), Fisker Automotive ($529 million) and the Vehicle Production Group ($50 million), a start-up company promoting a handicapped-accessible van that runs on natural gas.

I towed my current TT (about 5000 lbs loaded) for a season with an older Silverado 1500 and hated it. The 4 speed constantly searched for the right trans gear and it really had to wind up to produce power. Hills with the 5.3 were a struggle and it always felt like a good breeze was really pushing me around. I replaced the 1500 with a 2500HD this season and the handling was night and day difference. The 2500's stiffer suspension and heavier brakes make for a much more enjoyable and less stressful trip. I didn't make it to the scales with the 1500 but I bet I was close to the payload max with the family loaded up for a trip. I'm sure the newer F150s (ecoboost) and 7 speed Silverado 1500s are capable of towing 6000k lbs but IMO you would be more comfortable with a F250/2500 with that weight. I'd love to get a diesel one day but it just isn't in the budget.

When did Ford borrow money from the government. I know for a fact Ford, a little before the crash, had mortgaged the entire company, including the Blue Oval, to fund a lot of R&D and other major projects. After the crash, GM & Chrysler had a lot of debt, no cash, and no way to borrow any more. They were either going belly up, or get balled out by the government.

Marcusjolaine wrote:

IndyCamp wrote:

fx2tom wrote:


And for the record, Ford borrowed money from the government. True, it was a loan, but why did they go to the government and not the banks? Do you think they got better rates? That's the same as a subsidy provided by the taxpayers.

Passin Thru wrote:
2006 Chevy, Duramax 420 HP, Allison 6 speed, 2004 Arctic Fox 31W, weigh 18500 loaded. 10.9 MPG towing to CO and back to VA at 67 MPH
I hear people brag all the time about their fuel mileage but no one will prove it or hook on my trailer for that 17-20 MPG they brag about. I get 17 empty.

Are you sure about the horsepower rating you have indicated for your Duramax? Has it been "tuned" giving it more HP? From the information I have read the Duramax HP rating for the 2006 is 325HP.

IndyCamp wrote:

fx2tom wrote:

TNGW1500SE wrote:
Ford didn't need to be bailed out by the government. Something I consider when shopping.

My 2010 f150 4x4 5.4 tows my 31' camper very well with 700 pounds of motorcycles in the bed.

That was my reasoning when I bought my F150. Didn't really matter when the truck ended up being a POS. Didn't even cross my mind when I bought my Ram.

Yeah, I never understood that line of reasoning.

Business and government have been in bed together for years. Before anyone on this board was even born, in fact.

I guarantee you most posters on this forum shop at Walmart.

MANY of their stores receive tax breaks and concessions from local governments that the local mom-and-pop businesses don't get. When it comes to GM, that is "socialism," but when it comes to Walmart, hey, "where is the RV aisle?"

A lot of posters on this board are probably also fans of NFL teams. Teams that hold their cities and fans hostage until they give them sweetheart, tax-free, deals for new stadiums. Deals that no other business in town is getting.

For the record, I have no problem with any of it. Not handouts to GM, Walmart, or NFL teams. If you do have a problem with it, however, at least be consistent and not let your outrage end when it comes to a certain brand.

And for the record, Ford borrowed money from the government. True, it was a loan, but why did they go to the government and not the banks? Do you think they got better rates? That's the same as a subsidy provided by the taxpayers.

The bottom line is, buy whichever truck you like the best.

All of the Big Three (and Toyota) make great trucks these days. I think it's silly to hate a brand out of tradition or because one is "anti-American," when most of the stuff you will buy to put in your RV was made in China, anyway.

I'll start on my soap box by saying everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

I work for an America manufacture and I shop they same way I ask my customers to shop; keep American jobs in mind when spending your hard earned dollars. I do this whether I'm shopping at WalMart or for a new truck. I do check labels and I will pay a premium for American made products IF I see a value in it.

The Ford F-150 is built in America with the most US content of any half ton truck. This goes a long way towards earning my loyalty. Add to this, that ANY money they borrowed from the US taxpayer they paid back with interest. You can't say that about the other US auto manufactures.

Some might say this type loyalty is blind and hurts our competitiveness but look at great companies such as Weber (grills). They have a premuim line made in the US and then a economy line built overseas. That to me is thinking globally while still providing locally.

If you're not sure where your truck is built just read the label on the door.

Now stepping down from my soap box, thank you.

fx2tom wrote:

TNGW1500SE wrote:
Ford didn't need to be bailed out by the government. Something I consider when shopping.

My 2010 f150 4x4 5.4 tows my 31' camper very well with 700 pounds of motorcycles in the bed.

That was my reasoning when I bought my F150. Didn't really matter when the truck ended up being a POS. Didn't even cross my mind when I bought my Ram.

Yeah, I never understood that line of reasoning.

Business and government have been in bed together for years. Before anyone on this board was even born, in fact.

I guarantee you most posters on this forum shop at Walmart.

MANY of their stores receive tax breaks and concessions from local governments that the local mom-and-pop businesses don't get. When it comes to GM, that is "socialism," but when it comes to Walmart, hey, "where is the RV aisle?"

A lot of posters on this board are probably also fans of NFL teams. Teams that hold their cities and fans hostage until they give them sweetheart, tax-free, deals for new stadiums. Deals that no other business in town is getting.

For the record, I have no problem with any of it. Not handouts to GM, Walmart, or NFL teams. If you do have a problem with it, however, at least be consistent and not let your outrage end when it comes to a certain brand.

And for the record, Ford borrowed money from the government. True, it was a loan, but why did they go to the government and not the banks? Do you think they got better rates? That's the same as a subsidy provided by the taxpayers.

The bottom line is, buy whichever truck you like the best.

All of the Big Three (and Toyota) make great trucks these days. I think it's silly to hate a brand out of tradition or because one is "anti-American," when most of the stuff you will buy to put in your RV was made in China, anyway.

TNGW1500SE wrote:
Ford didn't need to be bailed out by the government. Something I consider when shopping.

My 2010 f150 4x4 5.4 tows my 31' camper very well with 700 pounds of motorcycles in the bed.

That was my reasoning when I bought my F150. Didn't really matter when the truck ended up being a POS. Didn't even cross my mind when I bought my Ram.

By now you should have figured out that it is a matter of how much you wish to overload your TV. My E-Boost F-150 is rated for 9500# towing.

However,,,, if you figure just 10% on the tongue weight that is 950 lbs; the max cargo on my truck is 1400 lbs. so I can haul me, the DW and the dog. If I transfer back 200 lbs. for the WD hitch I can now add the truck cap to my TV. Still no camp gear etc.

The problem is you will run out of TV cargo capacity long before you run out of pulling capacity. :S The reason people get by with large TTs and smaller TV is because you can temporarily overload a pick-up. If you do not believe it just ask any farmer.:B

Obviously it is not a good idea nor does it promote TV longevity but you see it done often enough.

I figure a half ton TV for a 5000lbs dry weight TT; anything bigger go with a bigger TV if you plan to do a lot of travel.

Looking over all the responses, there is a lot of good info here for you to pick through. But whether you buy a Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota or Yugo ;), it is good to remember the quotes below, already mentioned in this thread:

*Buy bigger than you need (within reason of course).

*Do not allow a TT salesperson, or a truck sales person make your decision for you.
Please do the research, and post questions here.

Good luck!