How much more powerful can new trucks get? I mean seriously it can't continue like it is with new engines doubling in power over the last 15-20 years. My kid will be driving a 1000hp daily driver and be like, "yeah my dad's old pos only has 450 hp".

I wish they'd stop focusing on HP. 400/900 is plenty for any non commercial application. They need to shift their focus to fuel mileage more than they have.

2001400ex wrote:I wish they'd stop focusing on HP. 400/900 is plenty for any non commercial application. They need to shift their focus to fuel mileage more than they have.Well I get between 11 and 12 MPG moving 20,000# down the road at between 60 and 65 mph. I also get between 19 and 20 MPG running empty. That is the equivalent of 2,500# eco car getting 50 to 60 MPG.

rhagfo wrote:2001400ex wrote:I wish they'd stop focusing on HP. 400/900 is plenty for any non commercial application. They need to shift their focus to fuel mileage more than they have.Well I get between 11 and 12 MPG moving 20,000# down the road at between 60 and 65 mph. I also get between 19 and 20 MPG running empty. That is the equivalent of 2,500# eco car getting 50 to 60 MPG.That's the same as 15 years ago. Granted emissions are less. But mpg hasn't improved on diesel HAD pickups, although they have on gas engines.

There's only so much energy in a gallon of fuel. I think they have squeezed about as much as they can out of it. The real issue is the weight you ask that gallon to pull around. As to horsepower you control how much you use and when I need it I'm glad it's there.

2001400ex wrote:rhagfo wrote:2001400ex wrote:I wish they'd stop focusing on HP. 400/900 is plenty for any non commercial application. They need to shift their focus to fuel mileage more than they have.Well I get between 11 and 12 MPG moving 20,000# down the road at between 60 and 65 mph. I also get between 19 and 20 MPG running empty. That is the equivalent of 2,500# eco car getting 50 to 60 MPG.That's the same as 15 years ago. Granted emissions are less. But mpg hasn't improved on diesel HAD pickups, although they have on gas engines.lol, you realize that rhagfo's truck is 16 years old? Of course, that does just agree with your point. I remember back in the '80s when the Dodge Cummins truck were first becoming popular - people were saying they were getting 25mph or more on the highway (hauling a load, not towing), and everyone was AMAZED at how POWERFUL the engines were! And.... they were like 150hp. Then, of course, you dive into obtuse discussions of torque (which I still don't really understand) and gearing.

When will it end | Good Sam Community

BenK
Explorer
Aug 07, 2017
Electric traction motors will be coming and they have been available for a loooong time on Diesel/Electric locomotives

The main issue has been storage (AKA batteries) and that is now coming in. Thought Saline Batteries as they are already on line in European Telcom and always hoped Capacitor Batteries would come soon after. Exciting times for me on this area...almost too many to read up on...even the latest from China....hydrogen from a hybrid aluminum/Ceramic that all you do is add water...

The fact that a properly designed electric motor/controller/battery system can have over 300% torque at ZERO RPM is something no ICE can match. Nor can any ICE match the lower number of moving parts of a electric motor.

Issue will continue to be the upper end RPM limits of an electric vs ICE. Even vs diesel...but that is what a gear box is for and in the case for electric motor...an under-drive gear box

Pulling Hills: Torque vs. Horsepower

benk wrote:
Posted: 11/19/12 07:29pm

Next gen American Tank will have electric motors with turbine generators

Found that out while consulting on some heat management issues

An electric motor (of the right kind) can have 100% to over 200% torque
at ZERO RPM. NO HP yet. Think of a 1 foot pipe wrench on a drive shaft
with 100 lbs of force (100 ft/lbs) but the shaft is NOT allowed to turn

That will have 100 ft/lbs torque and ZERO HP

Then allow the drive shaft to turn at whatever and NOW you have HP

Goes back to the HP formula: HP = torque x rpm / 5252
HP = 100 ft/lbs x zero RPM = 0 / 5252 = 0 (zero)

OBTW, that electric motor would make a wonderful TV motor, but I'd
have to win the Lottery in order to stuff that into my Sub...

1,500 HP continuous (duty cycle) at 4,500 RPM and about the
size of a basket ball. Plus no tranny needed, so it would fit in the
tranny tunnel to leave the engine bay for batteries (both storage
and capacitor). Diff ratio should be down in the 1:1 or maybe 1.x:1
range

Posted that several years ago: Hybrid Trucks for Towing

benk wrote:

This is the traction motor I'd love to get my hands on...or it's baby
brother, if there is one...

High Torque Density Traction Motor

1,500 HP...CONTINUOUS duty cycle next gen tank motor and it will have TWO of them.
One on each side (treads) and direct drive on the sprocket. Plus these
can be over driven to have over 200% torque at ZERO RPM at a reduced
duty cycle (think somewhere around 40%....also assuming dependent
on the cooling systems capabilities)

On our trucks, NO tranny needed and the diff can be a 1:1

Since no tranny, this motor can be in the tranny tunnel and the ICE bay a pure
generator & battery setup....also tried to get a few of the OEMs
to understand that architecture, but they have no clue in their
marketing and management folks....their engineering folks did and
loved talking shop with them...but the decision makers continued to
give us headaches...

Glad to find you also understand that any 'diesel' locomotive is a hybrid and
has been for decades. I'm working on my city's staff trying to get them to
understand that and that the freight line can be an all electric for HSR (high
speed rail), but that is another topic...
Jarlaxle
Explorer II
Aug 07, 2017
boshog wrote:
I think the horsepower/torque wars has become ridiculous. Good grief, some of the big class A diesel pushers are using the same Cummins ISB used in the RAMs.

According to Google searches, a diesel engine is 45% efficient, 15% greater than a gasoline engine. Let them focus on increasing reliability and efficiency and let Fastlane Trucks start measuring the MPGs up the Ike instead of times.

Nothing new...most Freightliner straight trucks (including Ryders giant fleet) also use Cummins 6.7s.
VernDiesel
Explorer
Jul 25, 2017
We need to keep clean diesel emissions but common sense by EPA and working with the automotive industry instead of dictates control over & pillaging of the industry is needed. That gov entity seems to be out of control. It's said much of gov is at war with the combustion engine especially diesel (or oil & gas industry) and that emissions are used as a scapegoat as their is much bigger fish to fry if clean air was the only objective. If the free market & or the voters were actually allowed to decide per how the constitution is written as opposed to gov force I believe the small fuel efficient diesel will come to thrive. If gov does not block or dissuade Ford from bringing their 3.0 turbo diesel to the F150 I think it will succeed.

That said fuel efficiency & the small diesel needs to remain the focus here so as not to veer into politics per forum rules. With the Ram ED getting an EPA rating of 29 mpg hwy I'm sure the coming 3.0 liter diesel f150 would have to be focused on 30 mpg hwy with their new 10 speed. That would have to sell a lot of trucks.
TurnThePage
Explorer
Jul 25, 2017
According to this article they are back in production, but not yet being sold.
Airstreamer67
Explorer
Jul 25, 2017
Small diesels are great, but they have to tame the emissions. Trying to do so crippled mighty VW. Are they selling new Ram 3.0s today?
RobertRyan
Explorer
Jul 25, 2017
RobertRyan wrote:
VernDiesel wrote:
A 3.0 diesel with 8/10 speed tows these efficiently and can still make a great daily driver that wife can parallel park.

These have become the default option in Australia. Wife Girlfriend, Daughter , single women love them. I thought they made up only 14% of vehicles sold , but it is now 15.2% of all vehicles sold. Estimate of sales outside NA of 3.2 million vehicles sold per annum by 2026
RobertRyan
Explorer
Jul 25, 2017
VernDiesel wrote:
A 3.0 diesel with 8/10 speed tows these efficiently and can still make a great daily driver that wife can parallel park.

These have become the default option in Australia. Wife Girlfriend, Daughter , single women love them. I thought they made up only 14% of vehicles sold , but it is now 15.2% of all vehicles sold. Estimate of sales outside NA of 3.2 million vehicles sold per annum by 2026
jus2shy
Explorer
Jul 25, 2017
Yeah, electric power is already there. It's just the energy storage medium for said electric motors

Toyota Hydrogen Truck Demo
Just watch the first minute.
VernDiesel
Explorer
Jul 25, 2017
Yes TTs have gotten larger especially with the 5ers that said 1,000s of new 4 to 7K TTs are sold each year. A 3.0 diesel with 8/10 speed tows these efficiently and can still make a great daily driver that wife can parallel park.
RoyJ
Explorer
Jul 24, 2017
John & Angela wrote:
But yah, the torque would be amazing. The model x Tesla can pull its rated tow rate (5000 pounds) from zero to sixty in something like 9 seconds. Now to get that into a pickup. :)

Wouldn't that be amazing?

Motor tech is not the problem, it's all about battery energy density and PRICE.

The heaviest land freight have been moved by electric motors for over half a century - diesel electric locos.

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