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Why diesel trucks?

Gjac
Explorer III
Explorer III
Judging from my other two posts a lot of folks that responded drive DRW diesel trucks to carry the heavier multi slide campers. I understand the DRW for heavier payload but why diesel? Just looking at Fords web site the gas models have a greater payload capacity than diesel models, I am guessing because they are lighter. I am trying not to have to buy a DRW diesel to use just when camping a few weeks out of the year. Is there another reason to buy a diesel truck such as durability that drives this decision.
168 REPLIES 168

NRALIFR
Explorer
Explorer
And then thereโ€™s the higher taxes on each gallon of Diesel fuel vs gasoline. Federal taxes are 24.4 cents per gallon vs 18.4 cents for gasoline. Most states tax Diesel fuel at a higher rate as well. The average state tax on Diesel is 30.4 cents vs 28.6 cents for gasoline.

:):)
2001 Lance 1121 on a 2016 F450 โ€˜Scuse me while I whinge.
And for all you Scooby-Doo and Yosemite Sam typesโ€ฆโ€ฆโ€ฆ..Letโ€™s Go Brandon!!!

3_tons
Explorer III
Explorer III
KKELLER14K wrote:
Why is diesel more expensive than gas can anyone explain it? I'm talking fuel....but yes engines is the same question.


Diesel fuel use to be cheaper, but what changed the equation is the EPAโ€™s low sulfer requirement...To reduce sulfer to ultra low levels in diesel requires private investment and the construction of new multi-million dollar hydrotreating units where sulfur is bonded onto Hydrogen thereby converted into H2S gas for removal...The capital to build these costly units must be recouped at the commercial pump...

http://technomanage.com/Process%20Technology%20Database/Refinery/Hydrotreating/hydrotreating.htm

KKELLER14K
Explorer II
Explorer II
Why is diesel more expensive than gas can anyone explain it? I'm talking fuel....but yes engines is the same question.

jimh406
Explorer III
Explorer III
As they say, optimum would be a Cummins in a Ford, That being said, there isnโ€™t a GM in that equation. ๐Ÿ˜„ I guess youโ€™d say some of us would rather have a Ford 6.0 or 6.4 before a GM. So what?

Anyway, back to the ad, Iโ€™m sure I can build a new gasoline engine truck thats more than the most basic diesel truck. That doesnโ€™t mean much.

Kayteq1, of course, an exhaust brake is diffferent than a turbo brake, but the explaination of why diesels have exhaust brakes or turbo brakes remains. The real point is that gasoline four stroke engines have โ€œengine brakingโ€ by default. Always have.

And sure, it is possible to have a poorly maintained or mistreated engine of any type of engine that isnโ€™t trustworthy on mtns.

A final obvious statement, there are engines of all types that are doing just fine, and every engine has tradeoffs. Pick what you want to tradeoff, but donโ€™t pretend that your โ€œperfectโ€ solution is โ€œtheโ€ perfect choice for anyone else.

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member

Lantley
Nomad
Nomad
jaycocreek wrote:
A quick look in the Boise ads just now showed this...

2007 F-350 DRW gas..118,000 miles...$14,000
2008 F-350 DRW Diesel..244,000 miles..$10,950

I would rather have the 2007/gas at $14K with 118,000 miles than any vehicle with 244K especially diesel.

A 6.0 and a 6.4 Ford PSD are problem plague engines, even us diesel guys don't like them. I agree I would own a gasser or anything but a 6.0 or 6.4.
19'Duramax w/hips, 2022 Alliance Paradigm 390MP >BD3,r,22" Blackstone
r,RV760 w/BC20,Glow Steps, Enduraplas25,Pedego
BakFlip,RVLock,Prog.50A surge ,Hughes autoformer
Porta Bote 8.0 Nissan, Sailun S637

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
Now we are talking about personal myths.
In last 5 years I sold 2 trucks with over 300,000 miles each.
Actually I bought F250 with 300k on it and add additional 30k before selling for about the same amount.
Both run perfectly and sold them becouse I needed different configuration.
The 3rd truck was Ford 6l and that was POS, just like (I heard) V10 spitting plugs around.
Funny 1 more life experience. Few years ago I could cruise 100 mph on California freeways. Even I had Valentine One, for extra protection I was choosing other vehicle that would drive at that speed and follow it in distance.
On couple of occasions it was truck with V10 engine.
The only problem with following them was that when my diesel sedan could cruise 6 hr at those speeds, the V10 trucks had to make fueling stops every 2 hr.

jaycocreek
Explorer II
Explorer II
A quick look in the Boise ads just now showed this...

2007 F-350 DRW gas..118,000 miles...$14,000
2008 F-350 DRW Diesel..244,000 miles..$10,950

I would rather have the 2007/gas at $14K with 118,000 miles than any vehicle with 244K especially diesel.
Lance 9.6
400 watts solar mounted/200 watts portable
500ah Lifep04

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
jaycocreek wrote:


I agree..I had an open mind about gas/diesel looking for my TC hauler..It is next to impossible in my area to buy a used diesel with less than 250-275K miles on it.Seems that is the sweet spot for selling diesels...I won't pay a premium price for a vehicle with that mileage on it..

A gasser that is well taken care of will last at least that long or longer,usually...The gas engines seemed to sell in the 145K area..I got mine at 89K..

Other area's may differ.


Just curious since you did the research.
Was diesel with 250k miles cheaper than gas model with 145k ?
How much gas model with 250k miles would sell for?

jaycocreek
Explorer II
Explorer II
My take on a diesel truck is, if you plan on keeping it for a long time (like you and I do), then a diesel is viable. If you trade out every few years, then a gasser is the way to go. Diesel is a long term investment.


I agree..I had an open mind about gas/diesel looking for my TC hauler..It is next to impossible in my area to buy a used diesel with less than 250-275K miles on it.Seems that is the sweet spot for selling diesels...I won't pay a premium price for a vehicle with that mileage on it..

A gasser that is well taken care of will last at least that long or longer,usually...The gas engines seemed to sell in the 145K area..I got mine at 89K..

Other area's may differ.
Lance 9.6
400 watts solar mounted/200 watts portable
500ah Lifep04

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
SidecarFlip wrote:


My take on a diesel truck is, if you plan on keeping it for a long time (like you and I do), then a diesel is viable. If you trade out every few years, then a gasser is the way to go. Diesel is a long term investment.


Personal opinion is 1 thing and market research another.
Compare resale value of 2-3 years old trucks.
Will you get the $8-9 diesel cost back? That might wary between location, but from what I see in my area -gasoline Superduties have not much value and sit long time on craigslist.

SidecarFlip
Explorer III
Explorer III
burningman wrote:
Gas trucks do not have more useable payload.
The extra weight of a diesel engine is all on the front.
The camper weight all goes on the rear.


Not all but most....

My take on a diesel truck is, if you plan on keeping it for a long time (like you and I do), then a diesel is viable. If you trade out every few years, then a gasser is the way to go. Diesel is a long term investment.
2015 Backpack SS1500
1997 Ford 7.3 OBS 4x4 CC LB

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
jimh425 wrote:


Take it from Banks then. ๐Ÿ˜„ True that a gasoline engine has โ€œdifferentโ€ engine braking, but a similar effect.

โ€œHow an Exhaust Brake Worksโ€

Diesel engines control engine speed and power output by throttling the amount of fuel injected into the engine. A diesel has no air throttle. Because it has no air throttle, a diesel engine offers virtually no engine braking when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal. There just isnโ€™t a pumping loss to ****** engine speed as the piston descends on the intake stroke. Air is free to enter the cylinder, restricted only by the flow capacity of the air cleaner, turbocharger compressor, intercooler, intake manifold, cylinder head port and intake valve opening. This can be disconcerting to a driver that is used to the engine braking produced by a gasoline engine, and it can be downright unnerving to the driver of a heavily-loaded diesel pickup or motorhome on a downhill grade, especially if the vehicleโ€™s service brakes begin to overheat and fade. Thatโ€™s why exhaust brakes, such as the Banks Brake, have become so popular for such diesel vehicles.


That was technology used in 20 Century.
For last 15 years diesel use VGT turbos, who have adjustable vanes for performance and side effect - closing them provides exhaust brake.

Kayteg1
Explorer II
Explorer II
I will try to summarize.
When big gasoline engine will do the job- diesel offers:
-lower operational cost (that is tricky with $9k upfront cost and low driven miles)
-longer range on the tank
-more torque to pull up the grades
-engine braking
-high resale value
If those things are not important for you - you should buy gasoline truck.

twodownzero
Explorer
Explorer
burningman wrote:
Gas trucks do not have more useable payload.
The extra weight of a diesel engine is all on the front.
The camper weight all goes on the rear.


"Extra weight," regardless of where, subtracts from the GVWR. Since you won't get anywhere near the rear GAWR without busting GVWR in real life, this post is factually wrong.

Diesel for me for two reasons: torque and fuel mileage. I don't deal with post-2007 emissions though; I probably would not buy a new diesel truck.

jimh406
Explorer III
Explorer III
work2much wrote:
Diesels do not need an engine or exhaust brake. I have owned a few and the only one that has an exhaust brake is my current one. The others managed to not run into things and still move stuff.

Gas engine downshifting and the manifold vacuum created to resist the engine is nothing like the resistive force that exhaust brakes provide.


Take it from Banks then. ๐Ÿ˜„ True that a gasoline engine has โ€œdifferentโ€ engine braking, but a similar effect.

โ€œHow an Exhaust Brake Worksโ€

Diesel engines control engine speed and power output by throttling the amount of fuel injected into the engine. A diesel has no air throttle. Because it has no air throttle, a diesel engine offers virtually no engine braking when the driver lifts off the accelerator pedal. There just isnโ€™t a pumping loss to ****** engine speed as the piston descends on the intake stroke. Air is free to enter the cylinder, restricted only by the flow capacity of the air cleaner, turbocharger compressor, intercooler, intake manifold, cylinder head port and intake valve opening. This can be disconcerting to a driver that is used to the engine braking produced by a gasoline engine, and it can be downright unnerving to the driver of a heavily-loaded diesel pickup or motorhome on a downhill grade, especially if the vehicleโ€™s service brakes begin to overheat and fade. Thatโ€™s why exhaust brakes, such as the Banks Brake, have become so popular for such diesel vehicles.

'10 Ford F-450, 6.4, 4.30, 4x4, 14,500 GVWR, '06 Host Rainer 950 DS, Torklift Talon tiedowns, Glow Steps, and Fastguns. Bilstein 4600s, Firestone Bags, Toyo M655 Gs, Curt front hitch, Energy Suspension bump stops.

NRA Life Member, CCA Life Member