Forum Discussion

Viscerl's avatar
Viscerl
Explorer
Jan 05, 2019

Why I ordered an F-450 (and expect to be overweight)

Forums everywhere are replete with explanations and warnings that an F-450 payload (~4700) is lower than the equivalent F-350 (~5700).

We've ordered a Host Cascade (which might arrive before the truck, that's a whole different story {rolling eyes}), and Randal gave me a dry weight with options of 4100 lbs. (Our config is a little weird. No gen but tons of solar with LiFePO4) We'll be towing a small off-road trailer with a tongue weight of around 200lbs, but I do plan on towing car trailers to various tracks in the future. Open trailer is ~5000lbs with the car. Enclosed is around ~8000lbs with the car. Estimates 10% tongue weight is from 500-800 lbs. We're having the Magnum 30k put on the truck when it gets here so that we can use the Supertruss (+100lbs).

4700 payload
-4100 Host Cascade
-500 stuff
-600 family (there's 2 adults, 3 kids)
-800 tongue weight
-400 water
--------------
1700 overweight.

An equivalent F-350 would be ~700lbs overweight, which honestly isnt bad.
So why am I comfortable with the F-450 at 1700?

Everything that weighs more about the F-450 is below the suspension. The F-450's payload is less literally because it pushing down on the pavement (or a scale) more than the F-350.
Half-shafts (check)
Brakes (check)
Wheels (check)
TIres (check)
Wide-track front (check)

Everything listed above assists in making the "rated" F-350 payload more safe on an F-450.
So because I think the tires, wheels, shafts, brakes, and a set of Stableloads, adjustable shocks, and a Big-wig swaybar would help a 700lb overweight F-350 be safe, I'm excited about the F-450.

Interestingly, we had to get our Host order quickly because campers built after 3/1/2019 will have a ~9% price increase (Thanks Trunp!), so we might have a camper before a truck.

Y'all may think I'm rationalizing here, but a C/C would be useless to me outside of camper use. With the F-450 I've got a ton of hard-scaping, hauling, dump runs, etc planned that I couldnt do as easily with a flatbed.
Truck Campers
  • JIMNLIN's avatar
    JIMNLIN
    Explorer III
    Jan 08, 2019
    The day will come when there is a high profile accident and that will be the end of this under enforcement. There are certainly commercial vehicle operators that have a much larger margin of safety than RVers, yet they have to go through the formalities.

    JFI.... but LTL commercial operators use the same LDTs that we pull and carry our RV with...... and the same size gvwr flatdeck/enclosed/stock trailers using the same axles/tires/wheels have the same safety margins as the rv world.
    In other words if I chose the F450 in question to do LTL work we weigh our trucks fawr and rawr separately with attention to those 9900 rawr for this particular LDT which may weigh in the 3700 lb range = approx around 6k lb money making payload.
    We don't make money on a gvwr based payload sticker.

    My point here is the margins of safety are the same in the rv world for the F450 pickup vs using it for LTL work.
  • maxum1989's avatar
    maxum1989
    Explorer II
    Jan 08, 2019
    timmac wrote:
    twodownzero wrote:


    There will be a day in my lifetime when RVs have to go through weigh stations and be inspected. The present lack of enforcement has resulted in an entire industry of unsafe and overloaded vehicles. Just look at motorhomes or larger 5th wheels if you need examples; the tires and axles barely have sufficient capacity to carry the empty campers, much less any cargo. The day will come when there is a high profile accident and that will be the end of this under enforcement. There are certainly commercial vehicle operators that have a much larger margin of safety than RVers, yet they have to go through the formalities.




    I hope not, that will screw up my set-up, I am over weight but safe over weight..


    :D


    Maybe it should all start with the manufacturers giving actual weights instead of the made up figures they use now. I'm sure there are people out there that thought they had enough truck based on the brochures weights and sales people saying all will be good. Not everyone can replace their truck when they find out the weights weren't accurate.
  • timmac's avatar
    timmac
    Explorer
    Jan 08, 2019
    twodownzero wrote:


    There will be a day in my lifetime when RVs have to go through weigh stations and be inspected. The present lack of enforcement has resulted in an entire industry of unsafe and overloaded vehicles. Just look at motorhomes or larger 5th wheels if you need examples; the tires and axles barely have sufficient capacity to carry the empty campers, much less any cargo. The day will come when there is a high profile accident and that will be the end of this under enforcement. There are certainly commercial vehicle operators that have a much larger margin of safety than RVers, yet they have to go through the formalities.




    I hope not, that will screw up my set-up, I am over weight but safe over weight..


    :D
  • twodownzero's avatar
    twodownzero
    Explorer
    Jan 08, 2019
    SoonDockin wrote:
    Just be glad there is not much oversight in the RV world. The debate about sticker weight vs perceived capability will continue.


    Yep. Just glad my current rig is within specs. Even loading a truck TO the spec is on the ragged edge for me. My next truck will have plenty of excess capacity, way beyond what I'll ever use.
  • Kayteg1's avatar
    Kayteg1
    Explorer II
    Jan 07, 2019
    SoonDockin wrote:
    Just be glad there is not much oversight in the RV world. The debate about sticker weight vs perceived capability will continue.


    There is never going to be end to explanation why taxable and real ratings are so much different.
    Maybe better stickies and FAQ would help, but then lot of members will rather start new topic than do a search.
    On the other hand, I frequent automotive forum where 99% of problems are already covered in stickies.
    New topics have 1 line answer "go to stickies"
    Don't think too many likes that kind of conversation.
    We come here for entertainment as well
  • SoonDockin's avatar
    SoonDockin
    Explorer II
    Jan 07, 2019
    Just be glad there is not much oversight in the RV world. The debate about sticker weight vs perceived capability will continue.
  • burningman's avatar
    burningman
    Explorer II
    Jan 07, 2019
    So you believe that if Peterbilt rated new 389s for a 2000 payload just to make it fit a certain category, it would be less capable than an F350 and irresponsible to try to carry a camper on it.

    Yes that’s exaggerating what was said but it follows the same logic, or lack of it.
    The only reason it’s ever more responsible to run a lighter duty than a heavier duty truck is to comply with a poorly-written law your state may have that forces you to do so.
    You are certainly not being safer or more responsible.

    That’s not to say a 350 isn’t up to the task. It’s just that the numbers on the 450 aren’t real and it sounds as if you actually believe they are.
  • Grit_dog's avatar
    Grit_dog
    Navigator
    Jan 07, 2019
    Twodownzero and ticki, you two are sufficiently showing your ignorance for things mechanical, like, say, trucks. And that's ok. Not everyone is mechanically inclined or a mechanical engineer, but where it gets tiresome is impressing your uneducated opinions on others as if it is gospel, or as if everyone else not believing the same as you is somehow endangering the health and welfare of all who come near them.
    My dad used to say "it's better to keep your mouth shut and look a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
    Appropriate words for discussions like this....
  • Kayteg1's avatar
    Kayteg1
    Explorer II
    Jan 06, 2019
    California beside GVW has special stickers for GCVW, who are big numbers displaed on side of the vehicles.
    I've seen F450 with 40,000lb stickers. Usually those with double-decker trailer hauling 5 cars on it.
    I heard that you can re-register your truck at higher GVW in any state (if you are willing to pay higher fees) but never heard about anybody willingly doing so.
    That said my 1999 F450 for several years was registered under 8800lb what was its empty weight. It took 7 years when starved for cash state send revenue seekers to catch the under registered truck and bring more money.
    I've got pulled over when hauling a tractor, where front bucket was sticking over tailgate.
    Sure did not look like 8800lb vehicle.
    Still a friendly reminder. When you have commercially registered truck, regardless if you have TC on it, or a buldozer - you have obligation to drive via scales in states that require.
    Never have seen Highway Patrol chasing camper, but the times might come.
  • ticki2's avatar
    ticki2
    Explorer
    Jan 06, 2019
    twodownzero wrote:
    It sounds like you need a bigger truck.

    I would never purposely buy a rig that I knew was overloaded. My state does not allow me to plate for more than GVWR, so I would be risking a ticket or worse.

    If somehow I thought it was a good idea to do it, I certainly wouldn't post on the Internet and remove all doubt that I was aware the rig was overloaded.

    I understand the sentiment that 19.5 tires, bigger brakes, etc., certainly make it a "safer" option. Shame on Ford for underrating their F-450 class vehicles. That said, we have a responsibility to other people on the road to operate them within their ratings.

    There will be a day in my lifetime when RVs have to go through weigh stations and be inspected. The present lack of enforcement has resulted in an entire industry of unsafe and overloaded vehicles. Just look at motorhomes or larger 5th wheels if you need examples; the tires and axles barely have sufficient capacity to carry the empty campers, much less any cargo. The day will come when there is a high profile accident and that will be the end of this under enforcement. There are certainly commercial vehicle operators that have a much larger margin of safety than RVers, yet they have to go through the formalities.

    You have the opportunity to buy a truck that is rated for the load you want to carry. Certainly you have the money to do so if you ordered a new camper and truck at the same time. Don't risk it.
    NH does the same , they look it up in the book and it is registered for the manufacturers GVWR period . I find it interesting that the same people who say the manufacturers numbers are useless , accept the DMV higher numbers , if willing to pay , as justification that the truck is capable of much more than the maker says . I realize there is a certain amount of safety factor built in but who would like not have that reserve .

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