Ok, so lots of questions.First off, let me introduce myself. I've got 3 kids who will all be off to college in the next 5 years or so. My wife and I have always loved traveling and we are avid skiers (Me moreso than her). We live in Upstate NY and have 2 dogs and a Cat.So for when the kids go off to college for my next adventure I've settled on getting a truck camper. I've ruled out other vehicles for a few reasons. First, I have some towing needs, that some of the 4x4 vans can't accommodate. My two big goals for the TC are using it to drive to different ski resorts here in the North East, and driving it to fishing spots to fly fish. I will get a 4x4 but have no intentions of wheeling it hard; just rough roads and bad weather.I think I've settled on a Lance 1172 or possibly a 975. I'll mate it to a Ford F550, (possibly super single conversion.) although I haven't decided on the upfitter yet.I have a large shop that I can park it in, that's heated even in the winter. I built it with an RV in mind so large overhead door, electric drop, pull through, etc.So first question, those of you that use your water in the winter I assume you are driving with the heat on? I'm pretty handy and would even consider adding a diesel heater to supplement in the winter. This really works if my wife can hop in and go, take showers, use the toilet etc. She doesn't Ski as much as me and is more than happy to go back and kick back with a book while I chase the last lift.Those of you with the larger Lances what's your experience been? My typical winters here in NY are often down in the single digits (-17C for my Canadian friends) and while I've seen the Lances in person a few times it seems like maybe they'd need a bit more customizing to boost the low end? Do people find the bed warm enough in the really cold? I know some people use the bed systems to get an air gap, etc.We've been to a few RV shows and the Lance seems to fit our needs the best. I like the room versus Bigfoot, and they seem to be a little more modern than Northern Lite, especially now with the Truma heating and AC. Does anyone use the dehumidifier in the winter? Hows that work?I also work remotely and might occasionally take it for customer visits if I can reasonably get away with it, so I'll likely equip it with decent internet.Anyone have any experiences similar to this they care to share? Am I asking too much of it?

I don't have a Lance camper but I do have a lot of experience winter camping down to the -40's C. So let me address a few of your comments on your winter camping. The first thing is, and probably the hardest thing, is finding a place to fill up your water and a place to dump your tanks. Hopefully your heated shop already has this. Then you can fill before you leave and dump when you get home.Having a heated shop will mean that you don't have to winterize the camper after every trip which will save you a lot of time and issues. Myself I wouldn't go through the hassle of adding a diesel heater. When I had my truck camper and my motorhome I just used the propane heater and they both worked fine. Now that I have a van I do have an Espar gas heater which is similar to the diesel that I use in the winter. I love this heater but running two heaters in your camper would be a little redundant - Space, ducting, carrying extra fuel. One of the biggest issues with the diesel would be that you would need to have it so that it vents into the underbelly to keep your tanks warm and your pipes warm as well. So you may as well just utilize the propane heater that you would have and just carry an extra propane tank if needed.If you plan on going to locations that have plugins you could take a electric heater as well to help / cut down on propane use but again remember that having your furnace running will not only keep the inside of the truck camper warm but it also keeps your pipes and water warm as well. You may want to keep the circulating fan on if you are using another heat source.As far as using the toilet in the winter I do not see an issue with that as long as you have a four season camper. The thing that I would question would be having a shower in the winter time. I doubt that any place that you would go would have running water and using the water on board in a truck camper to have showers you'll go through your fresh water really fast and you will fill up your gray tanks in no time.Myself I would suggest in the winter time that you use the facilities at the ski hill (If they have them) to have a shower. It just saves so many potential issues.As far as having something underneath the bed to allow air circulation that's done as much to prevent mold as it is to keep it warm. Maybe even more so in the preventing of the mold. My system used to be in the morning after breakfast I would open up the roof vents and the back door and suck in a pile of fresh cold dry air to exchange the warm humid air. I never did have an issue with mold and I still don't have in my current van. The biggest benefit of a van for me in the winter is that you're always exchanging the air as you're driving. Thew dash air circulates around keeping the van a lot drier than the truck camper ever was. My Class C was the same as the van is in the air from the dash would move around the back and help to dry it out when we were on the road. If it was not crazy cold I would open a rear vent in the Class C while driving to move more air.Finally remember when winter camping the space/volume of air in the camper is small and you are VERY CLOSE to the walls. I've had a number of people tell me that they can never get warm in a small camper. A couple reasons for this is that when you open the door a lot of the warm air gets pulled out and a lot of cold air comes in so it cools off quickly. Likewise you will notice your furnace will run a lot more then at home as you do not have a lot of air to hold heat. Finally you're close to the walls when you're in the camper. You're not 4, 5, 6 ft away from the cold walls like you are in the house. A lot of people can feel the cold from the walls and it makes them feel chilled when they're camping.Not that you cannot do it but just a few things to consider.

I kind of like the idea of adding a diesel heater providing you plumb it from the truck's tank so you don't have to carry jerry cans of diesel, and you make it so it heats the tank areas as well as the living area. this would be the best of both worlds, run out of propane you still have heat available, and while your driving you don't waist any propane

The so called moniker of ‘4 Season’ is merely a marketing term used to move campers - Trust that’s it’s true meaning is in the eye of the unsuspecting beholder…3 tons

4 seasons. Summer in Minnesota, spring and fall almost anywhere and winter in Florida. It will work in all four seasons.... as long as you use the wheels you have it mounted on properly.

schlep1967 wrote:4 seasons. Summer in Minnesota, spring and fall almost anywhere and winter in Florida. It will work in all four seasons.... as long as you use the wheels you have it mounted on properly.There's a lot of truth to this statement. I don't think Lance ever intended there TC's to be used in artic weather. They are a beautiful camper and I love mine but survival was and is not in the 4 seasons plan. Now, OP I'm commenting on my Lance 1181 and have no idea how your new 1172 will be as far as cold weather. My Lance did well after several upgrades that I got ideas from here on this forum and LOA. There are six big holes in my camper. Large skylight over the tub, Exhaust fan over the stove, "dampener is useless". The Roof AC. The escape hatch over the bed. vent in the bathroom and kitchen area. Everything at camping world worked but increased the humidity by a lot. Exhaust fan over stove. I taped some Styrofoam insulation over the outside after I wedged out the design of the outside vent. It worked! the bedroom. I placed bath towels above the retractable screen to insulate and absorb moisture. This worked great until it broke the screen. Then I supported the towels with a simple dowel system used with shower rod holders. You'll have to replace the towels once a day before bed or they'll drip. Wring out the wet set and replace with dry, rinse repeat... The tub skylight had an existing snap curtain that was hefty enough to support a nice chunk of the pink or blue Styrofoam. I leave one side unsnapped and the moisture will drain. This has never been a problem. The AC was easy as well. I pulled off the bottom cover and stuffed some of these https://www.amazon.com/Acoustic-Panels-Soundproof-Insulation-Absorbing/dp/B07MCGRV7M/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=2TBTKR7F3MZKM&keywords=insulation%2Bpanels&qid=1683066607&sprefix=insulation%2B%2Caps%2C111&sr=8-2-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyNUZRMUdIWUhHUjhBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzM0MzAxMTRWMFkwWlgwTjFZTiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMDkxOTgwM0swT0o4OFBOOTY1RSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1 up through the opening and reinstalled the bottom cover. Worked great!!! The two remaining roof vents have ceiling fans. Not much worked here so I also put some of the expanding foam in the dome on top and didn't mess with it till I got home. Every other opening was covered with the blue insulation board inside the door. Water inlet, propane, both flip up storage doors, etc... All of this stuff works well in Florida where I now live without stuffing the AC box off course. You'll more than likely have to push heat to the bedroom and storage tanks with some kind of fan. I have much much more but it will all be covered by others. I lived 25 years in Binghamton NY and know your part of the woods. Joe

How 4-season are 4 seasons Lances? | Good Sam Community

Grit_dog
Navigator
Oct 08, 2023
@LGmoon40, good call on the anti gel if you’re filling up with diesel on the coast, it may not be winter fuel suitable for those temperatures. However once you get anywhere near the mountains, a couple hours from home, the fuel will be winter diesel, so you could forego the fuel treatment by buying fuel in the right place on your way up.
- LGMoon40
  Explorer
  Sep 27, 2024
  I always fill up once I hit the Sierra, but after having my fuel gel up twice in the last 3 years I’ll stick with adding anti-gel in Addition to my block heater.
LGMoon40
Explorer
Oct 07, 2023
My battery is inside the camper where it stays warm enough not to be bothered by the outdoor temps. I relocated it into an interior cabinet where it never approaches the 32 degree mark, which is the cutoff point to allow further charging for a lithium battery I think? I just added another panel this summer, so now have 400W on the roof and 206 Amp Hours of storage. I can run for days with this setup. I'll run out of propane and water before electricity.
Supercharged111
Explorer
Jun 22, 2023
We've had our 1131 out in the teens for a few days a couple times with no issues. At some point you just have to nerd out and take readings from multiple places to see if anything is getting too cold that shouldn't. Don't forget the batteries won't hold as much of a charge and the solar isn't going to do a whole lot during the winter months.
LGMoon40
Explorer
Jun 08, 2023
I own a 2008 Lance 1055 and I've camped in the Sierra several times when the overnight temps hit -15F. I love my ski weekends in our camper and it just so happens that there is a really nice camping spot close to my favorite Tahoe ski area that is located in a valley and gets very cold. The camper handles it better than my diesel truck, so I've had to take precautions to make sure the fuel doesn't gel (additive and a block heater I run for a few hours from my camper battery in the morning before starting.) Like Buzzcut I have reflectix covering most windows and under my mattress, and I keep the camper warm to make sure tanks and water lines don't freeze. My 1055 doesn't have storm windows but does have a heated basement/tanks, and I keep my water heater on overnight too. I travel with a fresh tank (36 gallons between the tank and water heater capacity) and some rv anti-freeze in the grey and black water tanks. My wife and I use all the plumbing, including the shower, and enjoy a warm, comfy camper overnight and breakfast and lunch in the parking lot at the base of our mountain- can't beat that! I added a 206ah lithium battery, lithium converter/charger and 300watts of solar, and my lance charges from the alternator when rolling too, so we're pretty well set up to boondock in the snow. I also keep a small but efficient dehumidifier plugged in whenever we aren't rolling to help with the moisture. Beyond that I keep some dry rags handy to wipe down ceiling seams where moisture collects overnight when it is really cold, caused by condensation build-up over the colder aluminum framing. It isn't much, but worth keeping after.

As to where to put the wet stuff, I just hang coats and ski pants on hooks installed on the wall near my rear exit door and we keep the skis and boards outside overnight and in the empty shower stall if we are in a crowded campground. When we are traveling I just lay them on the floor of the camper in their travel bags. We bring our Lab too- he loves the snow!!
RickW
Explorer III
May 08, 2023
SkiBumAt50 wrote:
RickW wrote:
SkiBumAt50 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.

If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.

Cheers!

I understand humidity. That's specifically why I was asking about the dehumidify feature on the new Truma AC that Lance is using. I was wondering if it was like my Canadian friends who use their AC in the winter (Run AC in the winter). When I asked my local dealer guy he had no idea. But if it functions that way? That's a game changer.

Worst case I think a small air-to-air heat exchanger could be fabbed to do air exchange and dry out the camper. Making it look good and fit somewhere is the only problem.

See this post for info on an air to air heat exchanger I made to fit in the sliding window under the bed. Sorry, photos were deleted by photo host. I have used it off and on for the past 10 years.

Heat exchanger for TC

Yeah I'd love to see pics, but I assume it's like a house cross flow air to air?

The design I have in mind would be more like a periscope with counter flow. My youngest has a 3D printer, so that and some square aluminum tube I could prototype some things pretty fast. A few computer fans, and an arduino set to keep delta below say 5 degrees and I think it could be pretty effective. Rough turn over on a computer fan might be 20-30 cfm per minute. Back of the napkin says an 1172 is about 640 cuft in volume. That puts me at 32 minutes per turn over (theoretical). If I could turn the unit over 3 times in a night I'd be happy. So it could run much slower of course.

Yes, mine is a plate exchanger with cross flow in a plastic box like an ammo case that fits in the sliding window. I did mock up a counterflow shell and tube exchanger, but fans with higher static pressure (and higher wattage) than computer fans were required for my design. (Maybe why cross flow exchangers are used in cold climate homes?)

At low flow, I estimate my cross flow exchanger is a quiet 3-5 cfm, enough to sleep comfortably in my TC without open vents and condensation. I also confirmed humidity removal by initially boiling water in the TC and measuring humidity for a few hours after. Sorry, I don't recall the data.

Please share your design and results when finished.
SkiBumAt50
Explorer
May 08, 2023
StirCrazy wrote:
jimh406 wrote:
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.

great, that's how you use it but it's not what the OP is looking to do.

personally, when I upgrade, I want tanks in the basement with the furnace heating the basement so I can use the tanks. Right now, I have been looking at the diesel heater option, only so I can extend my time out in early spring or late fall, when the night time temps are getting down to well below freezing. With my two 20lb tanks I can safely last 5 or 6 days. With an espar type heater that has twice the BTU output than my furnace I could extend that to over 10 days by carrying one 5-gal container of diesel, or indefinitely by plumbing it into my trucks diesel system. I don't camp with either of my units winterized, if I want to go camping I want to have full use of everything.

Yeah this is my intention. I like to cook. I like to travel. I've spent years camping in tents and lean-too's and now? I'm over that phase of my life. I'm looking forward to comfort now.

My local ski hill has overnight parking. I could easily park at the lot that you need a season pass to get on, hit first lift with my wife. Come back have brunch. Ski until lunch, maybe have an après-ski mid day and then my wife could go relax and read while I ski unitl they close the lift.

Alternatively I like to fish. Here in NY we have lots of state access where you can start fishing 30 minutes before sun up. Its easy enough to find a spot be ready and be at the spot quickly enough. You probably can't get away with staying at the spot (regs say for fishing only). But there's always a place to boondock close by.

You hit the nail on the head. I want to add a diesel heater as redundancy. Belts and suspenders so to speak.
- LGMoon40
  Explorer
  Sep 27, 2024
  Problem with the diesel heater is that it won’t heat your tanks unless you make some mod to blow warm air into the basement where the tanks are located.
SkiBumAt50
Explorer
May 08, 2023
RickW wrote:
SkiBumAt50 wrote:
Grit dog wrote:
^I get it. Whatever works best for you is what works best.
The big thing with moisture is volume introduced via external stuff (the wet ski gear) and the lack of good air circulation. The forced air furnace (mouse turd burner lol) does a lot to dry the air but trust me. Few people for a few days in cold weather in a TC will be a challenge to keep humidity and condensation under control. You can. It’s not prohibitive, just a bit of a challenge.
You can charge from the truck somewhat efficiently with a good size DCDC charger.
Still, your engineer sense should guide you from over complicating things like plumbing into the truck fuel tank. Besides those little heaters only use like a half gallon of diesel a day or something minuscule. Nothing a little fuel can and 5 min a day can’t keep full.

If I have any control over it I WILL be doing very similar to you again in the future. And having run a couple TCs thru the gamut from driving to AK to outrunning tornados in the Midwest and boonie docking in the Rockies and cascades, what you’re planning is a great setup.

Cheers!

I understand humidity. That's specifically why I was asking about the dehumidify feature on the new Truma AC that Lance is using. I was wondering if it was like my Canadian friends who use their AC in the winter (Run AC in the winter). When I asked my local dealer guy he had no idea. But if it functions that way? That's a game changer.

Worst case I think a small air-to-air heat exchanger could be fabbed to do air exchange and dry out the camper. Making it look good and fit somewhere is the only problem.

See this post for info on an air to air heat exchanger I made to fit in the sliding window under the bed. Sorry, photos were deleted by photo host. I have used it off and on for the past 10 years.

Heat exchanger for TC

Yeah I'd love to see pics, but I assume it's like a house cross flow air to air?

The design I have in mind would be more like a periscope with counter flow. My youngest has a 3D printer, so that and some square aluminum tube I could prototype some things pretty fast. A few computer fans, and an arduino set to keep delta below say 5 degrees and I think it could be pretty effective. Rough turn over on a computer fan might be 20-30 cfm per minute. Back of the napkin says an 1172 is about 640 cuft in volume. That puts me at 32 minutes per turn over (theoretical). If I could turn the unit over 3 times in a night I'd be happy. So it could run much slower of course.
jimh406
Explorer III
May 08, 2023
StirCrazy wrote:
jimh406 wrote:
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.

great, that's how you use it but it's not what the OP is looking to do.

personally, when I upgrade, I want tanks in the basement with the furnace heating the basement so I can use the tanks. Right now, I have been looking at the diesel heater option, only so I can extend my time out in early spring or late fall, when the night time temps are getting down to well below freezing. With my two 20lb tanks I can safely last 5 or 6 days. With an espar type heater that has twice the BTU output than my furnace I could extend that to over 10 days by carrying one 5-gal container of diesel, or indefinitely by plumbing it into my trucks diesel system. I don't camp with either of my units winterized, if I want to go camping I want to have full use of everything.

Great, that's how you might use yours in the future if you upgrade, but who knows what the OP will actually do. :D
StirCrazy
Moderator
May 08, 2023
jimh406 wrote:
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.

great, that's how you use it but it's not what the OP is looking to do.

personally, when I upgrade, I want tanks in the basement with the furnace heating the basement so I can use the tanks. Right now, I have been looking at the diesel heater option, only so I can extend my time out in early spring or late fall, when the night time temps are getting down to well below freezing. With my two 20lb tanks I can safely last 5 or 6 days. With an espar type heater that has twice the BTU output than my furnace I could extend that to over 10 days by carrying one 5-gal container of diesel, or indefinitely by plumbing it into my trucks diesel system. I don't camp with either of my units winterized, if I want to go camping I want to have full use of everything.
jimh406
Explorer III
May 07, 2023
We didn't buy our TC to hang out in it all day. If we are going in/out, we have appropriate weather for the outside. So, we don't need it to be that warm inside.

Also, if we use our TC in really cold weather after winter, we don't use freshwater. Instead, we use RV antifreeze to flush. When we are winterized, we only need to bring it up to a minimal temperature just in time for sleep which takes barely any battery.

Finally, if we have at least power and winterized, we use our small electric heater, or our Air Conditioners heater element, and don't use battery or propane, obviously.

I'm not saying diesel is a bad option, but it's just one. We need propane in any case with a fridge, stovetop, and generator that runs on propane.