Safaribeachouse
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Re: Safari Serengeti
Two Jayhawks wrote: Greetings My Zanzibar 3906 was approximately 40' and it did have the C12/Allison 4000. I had the 5" tubes on the rear and I suspect they were still a bit undersized for the weight (about 19K). The coach only had about 50K miles when they failed. After replacement the coach rode good as new. I stored the coach at my business, indoors, heated, jacks deployed, and that's where we did the work. I do have some rather dark lousy pictures I could share if you want to PM me your email address. I had purchased all mods, Trac bar, radius rods, as well as the new springs from Pioneer. If I had kept the coach I would have added their air bag set up. We wanted a larger coach so I sold it last summer. I hired a tech to work with me to do the spring change out. It took us about four days total to change out the rear the fronts were still fine. we were at a slight disadvantage as Monaco was of very little assistance. BTW Monaco claimed only 6 Zanzibars were built with the C12 set up. Lastly I talked to the gentleman that owns the Zanzibar about a month ago. My heart broke when he told me one of the rear tubes had just failed. Yes I see you were spot on with being better off with sulastic over old inventory. Regardless I am quite upset he is going through this. As you would imagine my thoughts are why bother with torsilastic at all just go with air ride in the first place. Wow! It is great to learn something new! I did not know that they made Zanzibar models with the big C12, and I also did not know that they used the 5 inch tubes. The secondary failure you describe leads me to believe that those 5 inch tubes were/are defective. The reason being is, there is a fellow I know in AZ who owns a '99 Panther with the C12 in it and torsional suspension. His torsion tubes are 4 inch and are original. Granted, they are on their way out, (he is down to one or two shims on some corners), but the weaker 4 inch tubes are still holding up under that stress. This leads me to believe that BF Goodrich had some manufacture issues at the tail end of their production. There is NO WAY the second set of tubes should have failed, being the stronger ones and low use. It seems that the later model coaches, like your '02 Zanzibar had the most issues, further leading me to believe that BF Goodrich was likely having issues towards the end of their production run, or at least during that time frame. Did you replace the shackles when you replaced the tubes??? How did his spring fail? Did it completely collapse, or is he out of shims and border line on ride height? Please pass on the info to current owner about Sulastic and about the 4 and 8 airbag kits. I know that Henderson's installs them and would probably sell them direct if the owner wants to do the work himself. Please describe the process you went through changing the tubes. I know the Zanzibar owner who had all for of his tubes replaced back in 2012 at Redlands,took a lot of pictures. They used a special tool to load the springs. But the fellow who replaced his front tubes on his Foretravel, figured out how to safely do it w/o using the special tool. So I'm all ears (and eyes, once I get the photos). ;) Yes, I would love photos and any and all information on how you did this. I sent you a PM... John609Views0likes0CommentsRe: Safari Serengeti
Two Jayhawks wrote: Safaribeachouse & crasster Gents I want to respond even though I believe the OP has moved on. I was a happy Safari owner. Frankly Safari built a coach that is as high quality as my Newmar. BTW Safari built a lot of coaches and luckily not a lot were equipped with the velvet ride so yes there are tons of happy owners. My experience was not positive with the velvet ride suspension. Very early on (around 2004)I added $1500 in mods to aid in poor handling. In 2012 I suffered rear torsilastic spring failure. I knew about Sulastic then but was able to get OE so I went that way. Regardless the repair was costly (around $5K). So IMO by all means I would recommend a Safari to anyone. However I would NOT recommend a Safari with the velvet ride suspension. Regardless of the availability of non OE suspension parts being available, I just feel like there are too many (non torsilastic) used coaches available that will be easier on the check book. Thank you for the feed back. From early on, most if not all Serengeti models were VelvetRide, most but not all Sahara's were Leaf Spring (EliptiRide), and until the late 90's most Continental models were VelvetRide too. By late 90's a lot of the Continental models were air ride like their Beaver coach cousins. So, on the contrary, most Safari coaches out there right now are VelvetRide. If you go on the various Safari yahoo groups, you will realize that the largest percentage is VelvetRide, and second inline is EliptiRide (leaf spring). There aren't that many with air ride on the group. What model and length was your coach, and how many miles on it? Who did the spring install? Did you by any chance take pictures and document the install? How was the ride after the new springs were installed? Ironically, you were better off going with Sulastic brand, because like tires, these rubber springs age, and those OEM were laying on the shelf a very long time, and the Sulastic would have been freshly made, and they have tons of experience, as this type of suspension is very popular and successful in Mexico, due to their poor roads and poor budgets. VelvetRide has proven to be, by far, the most durable bus suspension to tolerate the terrible Mexican roads. These torsion springs are often known to go in excess of 1 million miles before they wear out. The same was for the torsion springs in Eagle buses, even though they were a different design. It seems like failure is most often seen from overloading, and sometimes (very rarely) from defect. In the later years, the Safari coaches got much heavier, but Safari, in their desperation to keep costs down, never upgraded the springs to handle the heavier coaches. The most evident failures were the Continental Panther Models, that had the huge and heavy CAT C12 engine and the heavy Allison 4000 Series Transmission. The Zanzibar coaches were also very prone to failure, even though they didn't have the large engine/transmisson, but they were heavy. To give an example on how overloaded the springs were, the same springs were used on the early 90's Continental models, that back then, were built on an Oshkosh chassis and had a GVWR of only 22000, those coaches are over 20 years old and most never even had or needed a height adjustment. Now, in '94 Safari switched to their in house Magnum chassis using the same springs and the average GVWR was 26000, sometimes a bit more. By late 90's they were using the same springs on coaches that had GVWR ratings of 29000 to 33000! It is amazing that those springs held up as well as they did, considering the gross over-weight that they carried. I am fortunate, my coach is a '95 and is not as heavy as the later models, and I have had zero issues with ride height and the springs themselves. I have all the shims up front, and a few less in the rear, that were taken out before my time. So, short of a freak failure like a collapsed spring, I have a long way to go, before I even come close to running out of shims for height adjustment. At the time, did you consider getting an air bag system installed to supplement the weak/failing torsion springs? I know Pioneer Metal Works had a four bag kit back then, and now their is also an 8 air bag kit available. If you don't mind, please give us as much detail as possible on your ordeal, so we can all learn from it. I think, that unless the shackles are failing, it is cheaper and smarter to supplement with an airbag kit when the proper ride height can't be achieved. I would venture to guess, if you had leaf springs and they failed, the cost would be probably similar, but maybe I'm wrong... Looking forward to your feedback and story of your replacement!610Views0likes0CommentsRe: Safari Serengeti
I think people mean well trying to be helpful, and when they don't have the full picture, so to speak, or all the information needed, they default into a warning mode, with the "good intention" logic being "better safe then sorry". Humans tend to be afraid of the unknown, and in the case of the odd torsional suspension that many Safari coaches have, good intentions coupled with fear and/or ignorance fester into a taboo rumor mill. I guess the good side is, the ones that do there research can get an awesome coach for pennies on the dollar. The bad side is, the ones that have small budgets, are not good at doing research, and don't know a lot, miss out on a great coach with in there budgets. You just can't win them all. I know that I am very happy and thankful that my wife stumbled on our Safari. I could not have asked for a better roomier layout in a quality coach package, and it has served us very well over the years. Knowing how great these coaches are, I try to be as informative on the things I know about them as I possibly can, the rest is up to each individual. BTW, nice Toyota RV, and pretty impressive mileage. :-)610Views0likes0CommentsRe: Diesel Comfort Advantage 30-34 Foot?
Something else to consider, is buying a high quality older coach that was well taken care of, instead of a newer gasser. The older coaches have way less emissions and electronics and are very durable. Also the ones that are well maintained and taken care of, more than likely have most if not all the bugs worked out of it. The odds of finding an older quality short diesel pusher is better than looking at the newer picks. Safari made diesel pushers as short as 30' and their Trek models were even shorter, also they had great and spacious floor plans. Alpine, Newmar, Monaco and others also had pretty good short diesel pushers. What you are use to will also play a roll. I'm one of those that can't stand high reving noisy engines. I don't know about the GM 8.1L, but the way the Ford V10 revs out and screams, just drives me bananas! You just breath on the throttle and she will drop two or three gears, if the transmission had a better shift pattern, I would consider it. Having had both gasser and diesel pushers, I would say the torque, braking power and peace and quiet is by far better, but to each their own. You need to pick what works for you and your spouse, if you have one. John726Views0likes0CommentsRe: Safari Serengeti
"John I Highly recommend passing on the Safari with Velvet Ride as the suspension replacement parts availability is dicey. If the suspension is healthy (none of the tubes have failed) yes you can add air ride. There is even a kit available. The guy that bought my Safari was doing exactly that. IMO unless the deal is just crazy good I would just pass altogether." Bill, I know this post is late, but just so everyone knows for future reference, and not to scare people away from the wonderful Safari Coaches. In the very rare case that the torsion springs would fail, there is a company that makes the torsion springs and the shackles for the Safaris coaches with the VelvetRide torsional suspension. The company is Sulastic. http://www.sulastic.com/books With all the Safaris still on the road that are well over 15 years old, many over 20, I have heard of only two cases of complete failure. One was on a '01 Zanzibar that was replaced in early 2012, and one on a Fortravel. The one with the Zanzibar was extremely happy with his results, with the last update back in mid 2015. So it is not as scary and taboo as some might think. :-) John610Views0likes0CommentsRe: Possible Samson Tire Issues, Maybe Not Worth The Savings
timmac wrote: Well its time for my update here : Replaced all 6 Samsons with Hankook AH-11 14 ply tires, the installer used equal in all 6 tires plus I have centramatic balancers front and back and the drive was smooth and much better handling, even the bumps were smoother. I would have to say the Samsons are OK if you just need tires and low on money but the ride quality will go down.. Sounds like you made a good choice, I would love to try those tires, but Hankook doesn't make a tire in my size (265/75R22.5). I am also thinking of getting Balance Master balancers. How do you like your centramatic balancers? Why did they use equal if you have the centramatics??? Here is a link to rvnetwork where SKP writes about is observations and tests about of various balancing, including roadforce, on large RV tires with steel rims. It sure puts things into perspective. His is the 6th posting. http://www.rvnetwork.com/index.php?showtopic=99807379Views0likes0CommentsRe: Possible Samson Tire Issues, Maybe Not Worth The Savings
Yes, same load range same pressure. Nothing changed except the tires. I had it checked numerous times and nothing was found wrong. All I can say is, if something was wrong, the GY did a superb job at masking the problem.379Views0likes0CommentsRe: Possible Samson Tire Issues, Maybe Not Worth The Savings
timmac wrote: Just wondering does anyone here have Samson tires and are having the same noise issues as I am. Here is a pic of my current tire, Note the tread is not the issue, must be tire construction or something. My experiance with Samson (size) 8R19.5 tires on my last RV was terrible! After getting two blowouts on my old GY G159's I had to buy some tires quick and did not have the funds, so I opted for the Samson (same one as shown in photo) for $124 vs. GY for $275. I replaced the four rear tires. I had GY G647 on the front and GY G159 in the rear. Before I replaced the old GY with Samsons, my RV handled superbly well, after mounting the Samsons, it was all over the road, to the point, that it felt scary to drive it. I had the whole steering/suspension checked to make sure something wasn't worn or broken, and all was in good working order. I don't know if it would have felt any different if my steer tires were Samson too, but after that experience, NEVER AGAIN for Samsons! The GY G647/G159 were excellent in every way, the only thing I didn't realize is the G159 were not made for high speed, plus mine were old too. If I would have followed my truck driver friend's advice of not exceeding 65mph, I probably would not have had the blowouts. Some times I am thick headed and learn the hard way. My current RV has the GY671RV 265/75R22.5 tires, which have been excellent with the exception of the left front tire having rivering wear issues. The tires are getting old too, so I am probably going to replace them either with Toyo or GY661HSA tires.380Views0likes0Comments
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