dezertcamper
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Re: Workhorse Opinions
rgatijnet1 wrote: dezertcamper wrote: rgatijnet1 wrote: dezertcamper wrote: Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway. Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis. "Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible. Seems to me that the Workhorse service dealer you posted called them BARS 6 or 7 times, but that is irrelevant. Since you seem to be in the minority with handling problems with your W chassis perhaps the first thing you should do is have a FOUR wheel alignment done with the thrust angle being checked to make sure that rear axle is in perfect alignment with the center of your coach. There are very few shops that have the equipment to do this but it is worth finding one. I know of ZERO RV shops that have the equipment but many truck alignment shops have the facilities. Then make sure that the front end is aligned with the coach properly loaded for travel and your tires properly inflated. The WH chassis will handle better if the front axle is loaded close to the maximum. If the front axle is light, the coach will sway and wag. Before you continue to throw money at the chassis, you should take it to a well equipped shop that will check the basic things first before you start adding every aftermarket accessory out there. Go on to IRV2.com and look under the Workhorse section. You will find more then just me who have not been satisfied with the stock ride of the W22 chassis. While doing research on my ride quality I found that site and found that what I was feeling was not not just me. Trust me when I say I did my research before just throwing money at something. The last place I want to spend money is on my RV. The first fix I did was to install the better valving Bilstein shocks and get it aligned. What we found out was my coach was on the low end of the factory settings in regards to caster. I don't remember what degree shim was added, but is was a few degree's of caster, and that in itself made a big improvement. It was this improvement that had me not do anymore to the front end. I admit I would like to add a front swaybar system, but that is pretty far down on my list of daily life needs or wants. A company called Brazel's RV in Washington is big into the Workhorse chassis stuff. I spoke to them on several occasions and they are the ones who suggested I start with a rear track bar (which was not bought though them) Then later it was my choice to add the rear Hellwig swaybar. This also made a big improvement. I still think the ride quality of my sisters Ford chassis is a bit nicer, but I'm much closer to what their ride quality is vs. before I did my improvements. BTW I have a Fleetwood Southwind 32. And I will agree different models & brands will ride a little different on the same chassis. I'm familiar with Jon at Brazels. He prepared my ultrachip but I did not feel anything was needed on my suspension other than switching from the standard Bilstein shocks to Koni FSD's. Did they check the thrust angle of the rear axle and was your coach loaded completely when the front end alignment was done? Is your front end loaded close to max axle weight? Tire pressures at 100 PSI. To be 100% honest I dont know all the details of what was done or checked when they first did my alignment. Its been several years and has been done since. But I know there is no adjustment to the rear axle without heavy modifications, and I don't remember paying for any. The alignment was a "4 wheel" alignment which basically they find the center of the rear and adjust the front to match, then adjust toe & caster. Since the first time, its been re-aligned again when I put new tires on, and the only adjustment made was in toe. Yes all adjustment were with the RV fully loaded including fresh water, minus food & cloths,and a course no trailer behind it. I'm way to lazy to empty the RV. The tire pressure I run is 95 lbs all the way around. As far as weight on the front axle, I dont know? I would assume I'm not close to max, only because 90% of our trips are desert or river, and I'm always towing a trailer.608Views0likes0CommentsRe: Workhorse Opinions
rgatijnet1 wrote: dezertcamper wrote: Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway. Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis. "Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible. Seems to me that the Workhorse service dealer you posted called them BARS 6 or 7 times, but that is irrelevant. Since you seem to be in the minority with handling problems with your W chassis perhaps the first thing you should do is have a FOUR wheel alignment done with the thrust angle being checked to make sure that rear axle is in perfect alignment with the center of your coach. There are very few shops that have the equipment to do this but it is worth finding one. I know of ZERO RV shops that have the equipment but many truck alignment shops have the facilities. Then make sure that the front end is aligned with the coach properly loaded for travel and your tires properly inflated. The WH chassis will handle better if the front axle is loaded close to the maximum. If the front axle is light, the coach will sway and wag. Before you continue to throw money at the chassis, you should take it to a well equipped shop that will check the basic things first before you start adding every aftermarket accessory out there. Go on to IRV2.com and look under the Workhorse section. You will find more then just me who have not been satisfied with the stock ride of the W22 chassis. While doing research on my ride quality I found that site and found that what I was feeling was not not just me. Trust me when I say I did my research before just throwing money at something. The last place I want to spend money is on my RV. The first fix I did was to install the better valving Bilstein shocks and get it aligned. What we found out was my coach was on the low end of the factory settings in regards to caster. I don't remember what degree shim was added, but is was a few degree's of caster, and that in itself made a big improvement. It was this improvement that had me not do anymore to the front end. I admit I would like to add a front swaybar system, but that is pretty far down on my list of daily life needs or wants. A company called Brazel's RV in Washington is big into the Workhorse chassis stuff. I spoke to them on several occasions and they are the ones who suggested I start with a rear track bar (which was not bought though them) Then later it was my choice to add the rear Hellwig swaybar. This also made a big improvement. I still think the ride quality of my sisters Ford chassis is a bit nicer, but I'm much closer to what their ride quality is vs. before I did my improvements. BTW I have a Fleetwood Southwind 32. And I will agree different models & brands will ride a little different on the same chassis.540Views0likes0CommentsRe: Workhorse Opinions
rgatijnet1 wrote: Actually the Workhorse chassis has very beefy front and rear anti-sway bars that, unlike the Ford chassis, do not use rubber bushings. They are directly bolted to the suspension and remains consistent because there are no bushings to wear out. I have 80,000 miles on mine with no trac bar and plenty of mountain roads and travel in the Great Plains with the high winds. I have Koni FSD shocks on my WH coach. Workhorse W22 chassis did not come with Swaybars. Those big square tubes mounted from leaf spring to leaf spring, Workhorse calls those Stabilizers or a Torsion Tube. Because the WW chassis uses such a long leaf spring to try to give it a smoother ride they chose to add these square stabilizer bars to help with sway that the spring get as they deflect. The sway is more from the springs rocking from side to side. This square tube mounted to each leaf spring was designed to help keep those springs parallel and also attempts to help with sway. This is also why an aftermarket track bar has such a noticeable improvement on Workhorse Gas chassis vs a Ford Gas chassis. The track bar keeps the axle centered under the frame. Here is what a authorized Workhorse service dealer said about the sway system under the Workhorse W22 chassis. "Workhorse did not use a traditional sway bar system. There are 2 stabilizer devices on your chassis and they both look like elongated square bars. These bars are either 2.0 inch on the front or both 2.5" square, depending on the year. The front bar is mounted in between the springs and you can see it mounted below the radiator. The rear bar is mounted behind the differential at the trailing end of the leaf springs. These bars work as torque arms where the side that gets loaded in deflection applies an equal force through the bar in opposition to the force absorbed. What the bar attempts to do is center the roll rate as best as possible and to keep the axle side to side deflection as minimal as possible. There are aftermarket devices that do this job to a higher degree depending on the need of the individual owner. These device are called an Anti-Sway Bar devices. Several aftermarket companies make these types of robust devices. These bars are massive featuring larger diameter of steel and appear much the same as an elongated U where the bar is attached to the axle and the the ends attached to the frame. Other aftermarket items used to assist on making the Workhorse chassis handle better are track bars. The track bars are mounted to the axle and the frame. These bars help center the axle and reduce the side to side shift the longer leaf spring sees in deflection. This deflection on the front springs will give the feeling of sloppy, wondering steering or what some call rut tracking. Also the usage of a steering stabilizer can also reduce some of this wondering or rut tracking felt in the steering. In the rear a track bar will help reduce a fish tail feeling as most motorhomes have large overhangs and the coach weight behind the rear axle will cause this side to side shifting. Some models feel this more as they have longer rear overhangs vs other models or brands." s N s wrote: :h WOW, ours is bone stock. It handles and drives like a dream. That's good to hear. I wish mine was the same. I first added a track bar in the rear to help reduce the rear end rocking, as I pull a trailer to the desert or a boat to the river. When pulling a trailer the wag was magnified. Next was a Hellwig rear swaybar. That made a huge difference. If you think it handles good now you should feel how much better is is with a rear sway bar. Let someone who has added an aftermarket sway bar let you drive their RV in and out of a driveway, or down the freeway with a cross wind. You will for sure feel the difference. On my Workhorse when camping I need to put my jacks down to keep from getting the sail boat rocking when just entering, exiting or walking around in the coach. Now my sister & brother in laws Ford, half of the time they dont put their jacks down and its hardly noticeable. My ideal would be the Chevy 8.1 engine, Allison trans in a Ford chassis, but that just my opinion!539Views0likes0CommentsRe: Workhorse Opinions
The Chevy 8.1 is a great engine with plenty of power. The Allison transmission is an awesome transmission. I cant compare the Allision to the new Ford trans, but comparing the Allison to the Ford trans they were using back in the era your looking at, is no comparison and the Allison kills it! You don't hear about people having issues with the Allison Trans. Now IMO the Workhorse suspension sucks! They have a joke of a sway bar system. In order to make my my 04 Workhorse chassis ride as nice as my family members 02 Ford chassis I had to add aftermarket Bilsteins, rear track bar & real rear sway bar. I have been told adding a front track bar & or Sway bar is a big improvement. So IMO to make the Workhorse ride as nice as the Ford I had to add $1,000 worth of suspension upgrades, and that is not doing the front suspension.140Views0likes0CommentsRe: Great Customer Service at San Diego RV!
darsben wrote: write it up on RVSERVICEREVIEWS.COM I did! Thanks for the info. By what others on that site have said about San Diego RV Center, I'm not the only one happy with their service. To say I was shocked that Fleetwood only glues the doors frames together would be an understatement. I get that you would glue or body tape the skins on, but the actual frame? I just cant say enough about how pleased I am with San Diego RV Center's customer service. Like I mentioned they did not build the door, yet they stepped up and fixed Fleetwood's defect.166Views0likes0CommentsGreat Customer Service at San Diego RV!
I just want to acknowledge San Diego RV Center for their great customer service. So many times people post about negative experiences with a dealers or repair shops, but not when someone does something good. So I feel when a shop does a great job, they need to be acknowledged. Several years ago I ran out of talent and banged up my right rear storage door & compartment. San Diego RV Center did all the repair work and between them and Allstate Insurance, everything was as easy as can be. Now fast forward to this last week. I was trying to close this same compartment door and I noticed the door was flexing, and the inner aluminum door frame looked to be broken at a corner joint. I assumed it was broke at a weld. So I took the RV up to San Diego RV Center and showed them the broken door. They looked it up in the history and confirmed when they replaced the door, they ordered it directly from Fleetwood, who intern subcontracts their parts to 3rd party vendors. At this point we all know Fleetwood is not going to warranty or stand behind a door that was purchased several years ago. So now I’m thinking I’m out of luck! So San Diego RV Center took the door completely apart and found that Fleetwood’s manufacture did not weld the internal aluminum frame. They use some sort of body glue and two sided automotive body tape to hold the whole door together. San Diego RV said they have seen this before and this is one reason why they now build all their doors & panels in-house. What they did to fix mine, was to make brackets to mount in each corner of the internal door frame, like corner gussets. These brackets will not only hold the door together, but make it much stronger. Then they installed the inner panel skin and used a better body glue, which also reinforces the doors strength. Now here is what makes San Diego RV Center so great! Two days after I dropped the RV off I was called and told it was ready. When it came time to pay for the repair, they stood behind their previous work and we split the labor to fix the door. No charge for the parts they made, just half of the labor time to fix it. Seriously who does this? Well we know San Diego RV Center does! So once again I suggest anyone who needs RV service, consider calling San Diego RV Center and give them a shot. I hope you will be as pleased with their great customer service as I am. San Diego RV Center980Views0likes2CommentsRe: What did you do to your Class A MH today???
What did I not do this weekend; I finished building and installing a rear trac bar and installed 4 new Bilstein shocks. Once that was done I installed a new dvd player for the bedroom TV. And when this was all done I went through my storage compartment where I keep my tool box and fluids and organized it.260Views0likes0CommentsRe: What did you do to your Class A MH today???
Today I replaced all the seals and ball on our Sealand travlers toilet. I was sort of suprised that we already need to replace the ball seal, but when I contacted Sealand they said on RV's 4 to 5 years is commen. I guess it is because they dont get used enough. Anyways Sealand has upgraded their seals since 2003 and the newer seals are suppose to be better. I bought the whole toilet rebuild kit and there were many upgrades. The original ball shaft was plastic with one o-ring, then new shaft is brass with two o-rings, the ball seal is actually two seals instead of one seal, I guess this is suppose to be the seal upgrade they made. The water valve was suppose to be the same, but the new one seams to fill better. Then after that my father in law came over and helped install the digital coverter box. What a pian in the butt. Pulling the TV was one issue, but then we have a full suround sound system and we could not get it to work with the antenna. It worked fine with the DVD player, but not the antenna. We finally got it to work, but dont ask me how!We did not even work on the rear tv. I think we will be investing in new didgital TV's next year. I also need to add the Wingman as I think I will get more channels.159Views0likes0CommentsRe: What did you do to your Class A MH today???
69RoadRunner, There's nothing wrong with a cheap Harbor Freight tool. That is pretty much where 80% of the tool I keep in the MH came from. I have the good stuff at the house and the cheaper stuff in the MH. And I have yet had a problem with a Harbor Freight hand tool. HF does have some cheap stuff that I wold not buy, but for the most part I have been happy with them. And if you lose or brake one, you not out very much money. Awhile back during a camping trip someone was mentioning how they dont buy from HF as the tools are junk. I told him most of what I have in the RV is HF. He sort of laughed at me for buying that junk. Later during that weekend desert trip he came to me as he did not have a tool he needed, and he was more then happy to barrow my HF tools. I told him a cheap tool is better then no tool!259Views0likes0CommentsRe: What did you do to your Class A MH today???
OK Last week I did all the maintance and waxing as posted. This week my 50' roll of B-Quite sound deadening/heat sheild material came in. So my goal was to sound proof the whole engine area on my 03 Southwind with the 8.1. After several hours and a few cuts and scrapes I got the whole dog house & engine bay covered with B-Quite. I even did the under side of the fiberglass dash which was visable from under the front grill opening. I was amazed at how little insulation their was on some parts of the coach. When done I knocked on the dash and doghouse access door the sound was much more solid. I drove it around and the engine sounds much more muffled, but the fan clutch never turned on and that is when the most noise is heard, so I dont really know how much of an improvment I have made yet. Same with the heat reduction as it takes a bit of a road trip to start feeling some heat through the floor. Our next weekend trip is at the end of the month so I should have a better idea on how well the sound deadening helped.337Views0likes0Comments
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