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Re: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
Thanks for the replies - Regretfully instead of this thread being friendly and educational so we can all learn from each other to further enjoy our RV’s, a few users have instead chosen two attack it and my credentials. For those who think I just dreamed up this topic, as a hobby, I spend 8+ hours a day designing lithium systems for their integration to RV’s. I designed the very first lithium system for RV’s in the late 90’s. Since then, I have provided consulting information to numerous RV manufactures, as well as industry leaders such as Lithionics Battery, Xantrex Corp, E-Gen and others. In Fact, I’m presently designing the first 100 volt lithium battery system for my Renegade. This system will provide up to a week of “off the grid time”with the roof A/C running. Other unique features include; the RV’s cab A/C compressor is converted to electric and powered by the coaches same lithium system allowing the dash air to run even with the engine off. This is big news for RV’s since the cabs AC unit outputs 19k btu. In fact, I just returned from a trip to Elkhart and Decatur visiting with technicians of 12 different RV manufactures for a “Show & Tell” of my Renegades latest lithium design where the entire coach and appliances are powered solely from lithium allowing the roof AC to run for two days or longer. While I’m presently documenting this newer system for an upcoming video, for those interested in a more conventional lithium system for their RV, I have included some links below of a few systems I designed. You might have to copy and paste the links! Stay Safe - Mike1.2KViews0likes0CommentsRe: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
Bruce Brown wrote: So Mike, take a look at this and ask yourself how this looks... Your posts; 9/17/21 - This has been confirmed by Cummins Onan. 9/19/21 - Thanks for your replies however I have spent hours with Cummins regarding these new Inverter based generators. 9/21/21 - Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs. So what's the truth here? If you didn't speak to Bill until 9/21, what happened on the other 2 times??? Next item; 9/18/21 - I have to inform you that your 2003 Newmar does not have an Inverter based generator. When your genny starts up goes right to high speed. 9/19/21 - I suggest you go out and start your generator you'll note it goes right to a high speed to maintain 60 hz. 9/20/21 – Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load, 9/20/21 - The changes your hearing is not that of an inverter generator, what you’re hearing and mistaking for a faster speeds is actually the engine speeding up momentary from a drop in rpm from as load was applied. 9/21/21 - Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol… Seeing as you told all these people they didn't know what they were talking about - and actually doubled down on it, and not very politely either, don't you think this would have been a good time to hand out a few apologies? It's ok to make a mistake - we all do that - the trouble is when you proclaim to be the expert and, in this case, simply had no idea what you were talking about, then totally disregarded the information from those who actually did. Bruce thanks for the reply - As I mentioned numerous times, I immediately noticed a contrast difference between the old and newer gen units with a revised Protocol within minutes when I first started the generator at North Trail. It's also important that you understand - I have spoken over a dozen Cummins Onan tech's since I bought my coach last year, most all confirmed there were operational differences in the newer gen sets at the same period the newly released 2500i and 2800i inverter based generators were released. In my last post I clearly stated that I just spoke to Mr. Stubbs yesterday evening for his accurate assessment on the newer generators where he confirmed there were major operational differences. Regretfully, since you don’t own one of these newer generators, so you’re speaking “off the cuff” without any real "User" experience. In retrospect, I had both my old coach (standard set) and new coach (new protocol) in my garage for 3 months parked side by side for comparison of the generators. Therefore, I speak from facts, I didn’t just wake up one morning and dream this thing up! Best Regards - Mike1.2KViews0likes0CommentsRe: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
Reisender wrote: Idle-Up wrote: Thanks for all the replies - I recently sold my 2019 Newmar New Aire which had an 8 kw genny to purchase my newer 2020 Renegade Verona with an 8 kw Onan as well. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed a contrast difference in the generators quieter operation and lower idle speed which compelled me to contact Onan to investigate the difference. Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs, Bill is possibly one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet with Cummins, Allison transmissions as well as Onan.generators. Bill is the one who uncovered the poor engine performance in RV’s which was caused by a protocol called “Fuel Sense” which was bogging down Cummins engines in RV’s. Fuel sense caused over-shifting in an effort to save fuel. Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol, which allows the Onan to idle slower, as well as control lower operating speeds to make the somewhat noisy Kubota’s engines a bit quieter and more fuel efficient. He mentioned these new diesel protocol’s were inline with the new 2500i and 2800i inverted based smaller gas generators recently released. Glad you got to the bottom of it mike. Hopefully the new and improved version will also reduce the amount of invertir boards that owners are going thru. Cheers and stay safe on the road. Reisender thanks for the reply - Regarding the many board failures in Onan’s, the most common cause for this occurs when the generator is using to the same battery set as the main engine. When the owner can’t start the RV’s engine because of a depleted battery, he then starts the generator. The problem occurs as he attempts to start the engine “while the generator is running”, the extreme momentary high amperage load of the starter windings overloads the Onan’s 12/120 volt circuitry, causing the control module to fail. Regretfully, this is a short coming of the Onan system since it’s not uncommon for an owner to have a depleted chassis battery from all the processors running when the engine is off then start the generator to power and start the main engine. Regards - Mike1.2KViews0likes0CommentsRe: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
Thanks for all the replies - I recently sold my 2019 Newmar New Aire which had an 8 kw genny to purchase my newer 2020 Renegade Verona with an 8 kw Onan as well. Upon delivery, I immediately noticed a contrast difference in the generators quieter operation and lower idle speed which compelled me to contact Onan to investigate the difference. Yesterday I finally managed to have a short conversation with my busy friend Bill Stubbs, Bill is possibly one of the most knowledgeable guys on the planet with Cummins, Allison transmissions as well as Onan.generators. Bill is the one who uncovered the poor engine performance in RV’s which was caused by a protocol called “Fuel Sense” which was bogging down Cummins engines in RV’s. Fuel sense caused over-shifting in an effort to save fuel. Bill mentioned that while all Onan diesel generators use an inverter module, the newer Onan’s now use a different inverter based processor protocol, which allows the Onan to idle slower, as well as control lower operating speeds to make the somewhat noisy Kubota’s engines a bit quieter and more fuel efficient. He mentioned these new diesel protocol’s were inline with the new 2500i and 2800i inverted based smaller gas generators recently released. I would additionally like to personally thank the moderators for re-opening the thread!1.2KViews0likes0CommentsRe: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
Reisender wrote: Idle-Up wrote: Thanks for all the replies Regretfully, Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load, nothing like the new 6-8 kw diesel Kubota engines at idle most all the time. Stay Safe - Mike Mike. Our 2003 7.5 Onan quiet diesel was an inverter generator. Starts quiet. If you turn on a load it speeds up. Turn on another load it speeds up more etc. I think you may be confusing older Onan gas generators with diesel generators. Cheers. Thanks for the reply - Your 2003 is not an inverter diesel generator. The changes your hearing is not that of an inverter generator, what you’re hearing and mistaking for a faster speeds is actually the engine speeding up momentary from a drop in rpm from as load was applied. In addition, it only sounds like it’s running faster but it's just additional “mechanical” noise from the Kubota diesel engine working harder with the load. Once the load is gone, the engine gets quieter (appears to be turning slower) but only because it’s no longer working and relaxed with less diesel mechanical noise. The newer inverter diesel generators idle down so low you can barely hear them running. There is a no comparison to the older generators. believe me I've been doing this since 1978 and owned over 20 diesel Onan's since then. The first Inverter generator I owned was in my 2020 Renegade. As soon as I heard this difference in operation, I called Cummins / Onan and they confirmed it was a Inverter generator. I also mentioned this same Inverter generator in more detail in my In Depth article which I authored you can find it at: Renegade In-Depth Review Regards - Mike467Views0likes0CommentsFlex Solar Panel RV Upgrade - Mike Mas
Hello RV.Net Users - I recently completed and documented my Flex Solar Panel installation on my RV and wanted to share the film for those who are interested in installing a solar system on their coach. While my panels are integrated with my lithium battery system, they will work equally well with AGM or Flooded batteries. The main advantage of a lithium battery system is their ability of storing a full days energy from the panels. I decided on using flex panels for my installation as they fit flush to the roof where they won’t catch leaves or hook branches which may damage the panels. In addition, they light, easy to clean the roof and very efficient for their size. Please click or copy and paste the link below for the film. Enjoy - Mike Mas1.2KViews0likes3CommentsRe: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
Thanks for all the replies Regretfully, Bruce it looks like it's impossible to get a few members to believe they don't own an inverter generator. All they need to do is start their generator up and listen to it race without a load, nothing like the new 6-8 kw diesel Kubota engines at idle most all the time. Stay Safe - Mike467Views0likes0CommentsRe: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
Thanks for your replies however I have spent hours with Cummins regarding these new Inverter based generators I suggest your research it further. I suggest you go out and start your generator you'll note it goes right to a high speed to maintain 60 hz. No one said inverter generators were complicated, the alternator simply dumps the output into an onboard inverter which maintains 60 hz even at idle speeds. I have a number of articles on these generators, inverters, lithium batteries installations and much more on my non- sponsored personal website. I invite you to check them out to brush up on modern technology click or copy and paste the link below. Stay Safe - Mike481Views0likes0CommentsRe: Onan’s New Inverter Based Generators - Mike Mas
wborst wrote: Nothing new here. My 2003 Mountain Aire has a QD 7500 that uses the inverter technology. Thanks for the reply however this is new news as of 2021. Regretfully, I have to inform you that your 2003 Newmar does not have an Inverter based generator. When your genny starts up goes right to high speed. Regards - Mike481Views0likes0Comments
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