joe6789
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Re: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
After a long day of splicing wires I finally have the entire setup installed. The Victron inverter/charger is both inverting and charging. Thanks everyone for the help in determining the right setup. It was not without more hiccups today though. The batteries were again dropping to near zero voltage. I called Battle Born, who said the battery management system could be causing this, but they didn't know why. They suggested that the switch (Blue Sea Systems 350A on/off switch) could be bad. I completely removed the switch from the circuit, and that fixed the issue (at least for now). Maybe the switch was falsely tripping the BMS. I may experiment some more with different configurations for the switch.811Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
I'm fine ditching the switch. You're right that Victron did not call for it. The purpose was simply to be a master battery disconnect, so I could disconnect ALL loads (not just the inverter) on the battery when the trailer is not in use. But I may have to live without the switch, and manually unhook the battery instead when the trailer is not in use. It would still be good to know what is happening though. I doubt the issue is the switch itself, as it seems to be functioning normally with only the inverter connected through it. My best guesses right now are either: a) Some sort of feature on the inverter, but I'm still not sure how the inverter could possibly be dropping the battery terminal voltage to zero B) Some sort of feature on the Battle Born batteries. They have a built-in battery management system, so maybe the batteries are shutting themselves off for some reason when the switch turns on. I have the workaround for now (only hooking one component through the switch), so I'll proceed with the installation while I'm still figuring out what was going wrong.812Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
Well the switch is actually rated for 350A, there's a 300A fuse at the positive terminal, and I'm using 0000 cables that are all very short. So theoretically all these components should be able to manage the current just fine. And right now the inverter isn't even hooked up to any AC loads, so it's only idling at about 0.9A draw.811Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
I'm pretty sure polarity is correct. After experimenting today, I found a workaround to the issue, and I'm able to run both the inverter/charger and the DC loads simultaneously. But I still have no idea why the issue (drop to 0 voltage) was happening. There is a master battery disconnect switch connected to the battery positive terminal. Both the inverter/charger and the DC loads were connected to the output of this switch. So when the switch was turned off, there were no loads, no DC current flowed, and the battery terminal voltage was 13V. When the switch was turned on, power should have been supplied to both the inverter/charger and DC loads, but instead the terminal voltage would drop to almost 0 and neither the inverter/charger nor the DC loads would receive power. What I tried today was to connect the DC loads direct to the positive terminal of the battery instead of the switch, while leaving the inverter/charger connected to the switch -- and the problem went away. Now, when I turn on the switch, the inverter/charger powers on fine, and the DC loads are also running since they are no longer controlled by the switch. In summary, if the inverter/charger and DC loads are switched on together, neither received current and the terminal voltage drops to 0. But if instead the inverter/charger is switched on while the DC loads are already receiving power, then everything works fine. What could be causing this? Is it just a fluke? Perhaps some sort of advanced "feature" inside the Victron inverter/charger? Note the DC loads are only about 0.9 amps and the inverter/charger only draws another 0.9 amps, so the total draw of 1.8 amps is very small.811Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
3 tons wrote: Well, per your previous (after hooking up the inverter dc side cabling only - ac side not yet connected) and with the battery voltage initially reading 6v then rapidly dropping to 1 or 2 volts within 10 seconds dropping, that seems like a whole bunch of current going somewhere?? How much current does the victron read when doing this, and does this only occur when you hook up to the dc bussbar ??...(just trying to isolate this a bit). Unfortunately, the Victron shunt does not give a reading when the voltage is at 1-2 volts (nor when the voltage is rapidly dropping from 6, 5, 4...) because the shunt requires some minimum voltage to operate, so it just turns off. Yes, this problem only occurs when I hook up the DC bus bar AND the inverter simultaneously. With only the DC bus bar hooked up (and no inverter), everything looks and works normally. So when either the inverter or the DC bus bar are hooked up, all is good, but when both are hooked up something causes the voltage to drop to almost zero. My understanding is that the negative DC bus bar is connected to the chassis for grounding, and the inverter/charger is also grounded to the chassis. Maybe that common ground is causing an issue. Also, while the DC bus are is connected, as soon as I hook up the inverter, about a quarter of a second later I hear a click from inside the inverter, like a relay or switch is tripping. This could simply be the inverter recognizing that it has too low of voltage (requires minimum of ~10 volts to power on), or maybe it could be a relay that's diverting the power to ground/chassis. Regardless, I still don't fundamentally understand what can cause voltage between battery terminals to temporarily drop to almost 0, and then have it return to normal 13V as soon as a wire is disconnected.811Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
3 tons wrote: How are you measuring the voltage, via victron meter??...Have you installed a shunt (in neg cable), and if so is it wired correctly?? On edit I believe your battery is toast... The auto parts store can do a carbon pile-load test to verify... I have two ways to measure the voltage: a multimeter and a Victron battery monitor shunt. I'm pretty sure the shunt is installed correctly, as I've been using it for a week with no issues (before attempting to install this inverter/charger). I believe the battery is still good. When I disconnect the inverter/charger, the battery returns to the normal 13 volts and powers all my DC loads perfectly. Alternatively, if I disconnect the DC loads and connect ONLY the inverter/charger to the battery, the inverter/charger powers on and shows 120V across its AC out. So in summary, I really think the components are working fine, but there's some sort of issue happening between the inverter/charger and the DC load circuit, perhaps something related to common grounds.268Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
time2roll wrote: dropping 1 or 2 volts is too much for no load. Dropping to 1 or 2 volts is a defective battery or open connection. Where exactly are you measuring the voltage? Inverter should pull no more than 2 amps at idle that might show 0.1 volt drop in battery voltage. Yes, I believe it's some sort of open connection, possibly between the ground of the inverter and the ground of the DC load bus bar. When only the inverter is hooked to the battery, the battery stays at ~13 volts and 0.7 amps are drawn by the inverter at idle. The problem is only when I hook up both the inverter and the normal DC loads -- then the voltage essentially drops to 0. I'm measuring voltage between the positive and negative terminal of the battery. As soon as I hook all the cables up, the multimeter actually shows about 6 volts, but then a second later drops to 5 volts, and continues dropping to 4 volts, 3 volts... and settles at 1 or 2 volts after about 10 seconds. If I disconnect the inverter or disconnect the DC loads, the battery voltage jumps back up to 13 volts and everything functions normally.268Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
I'm back with a follow-up question, this time about the DC side. I'm seeing my DC voltage drop to 1 or 2 volts when I've hooked up both the Victron inverter/charger and the DC loads, with all AC wiring completely disconnected. Specifically, positive terminal of battery has one wire going to the inverter/charger positive and one wire going to the positive bus bar, while similarly the negative terminal of the battery has one wire to the inverter/charger negative and one wire to the negative bus bar. Neither the inverter/charger nor the DC loads function when both are connected, since 1 to 2 volts is too low. Battery is fully charged. I see 13V when I disconnect the inverter/charger and only connect the DC loads (e.g. lights). Likewise, I see 13V when I disconnect the DC loads and only connect the inverter/charger. But when BOTH the DC loads and inverter/charger are connected, the voltage across the positive and negative sides drops to 1 to 2 volts. Any ideas what's wrong? I'm thinking it's related the inverter being grounded to chassis and the negative bus bar for the DC loads also being grounded to chassis. Note I have not yet hooked up any AC wiring to the inverter/charger, so the issue must be contained on the DC side. Again, would appreciate if others with more experience could chime in.268Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
time2roll wrote: If there is a short.... the pedestal breaker will open at the same speed as the added breaker. No melted wires, no harm to the inverter. If you are talking about inverted power... the inverter will cut power from the overload as part of the normal internal function. Keep the wire placement clean and professional and you will have no issues. Thanks, that sounds nice and simple!268Views0likes0CommentsRe: Wiring neutral/ground when splitting panel for MultiPlus?
enblethen wrote: The 50 amp double pole breaker in the rig is a main breaker with the handles tied to gether. If you are set on modifying the existing panel as stated, you would need to remove the existing double pole breaker and install one 50 amp single pole breakers to feed the primary buss. Then install a breaker in the second buss and back-feed into the buss from the inverter. Why is it necessary to have two single pole breakers rather than using the existing double pole breaker? Seems like I should be able to run both lines into the existing double pole breaker, one of which routes through the inverter first.268Views0likes0Comments
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