Ford's answers to the NHTSA 6.7 Investigation

ricatic wrote:

How many potential buyers of the Ford 6.7 diesel would actually purchase the truck if they knew about the HPFP issue? This is Ford's dirty little secret.

How many guy's here have noticed that when the pump fails, the cost to repair far exceeds the cost of the old 6.0 HG,EGR cooler and oil cooler repairs? While the 6.7 numbers are not approaching the level of 6.0, the chance of having this nightmare is real...and very expensive.

Regards

Courtesy of the wonders of the internet, we now know GM adopted a different ECM strategy --- they have the Bosch ECM that basically makes it very hard to mod the system.

See:

durallymax wrote:
What they did on the new LML was install the new "feared" Bosch ECM that does not allow the calibration to be read through the OBDII port. In doing this, they were able to gain legal power against tuners and such because the only legal way for any tuner to be able to tune the truck would be for the truck owner themselves to pull the tune and then alter it, anyone else who would gain access to a tune other than the trucks owner would be committing fraud. They also put a hold on the ECMs for 6 months, and any replacement ECMs require a lot of documenting before being sent out.

The CP4 pump itself is less than $1000 through GM.

In other words, the people that should be screwed over are being done in properly at GM with this neat trick. Imagine... a six month wait for a part!

No doubt that Bosch and GM have a different warranty deal, whereby Bosch was willing to warrant the part more comprehensively if GM locked up the module.

Ford, on the other hand, from the first day of the 6.0, insisted on complete control over the ECM and tuning and also on the turbo, etc. on the 6.0. That meant that Navistar was basically hapless against the kind of abuses that was done by 6.x owners -- and they got dinged for the bill regardless. Understandably Navistar was upset.

At the same time, Ford thought it was good clean fun to see their customers tune it, mod it, and play games with emissions until the 6.0 bills came home.

The fact is, technically, as of 2005 or so, Ford had the capability to lock up the ECM, but for different reasons (some right, like legal, they waited until 2008 to take the first step --- hence the legalise change in the owners manual).

In the mean time, Ford so PO the regulators (like the CARB) that discussions between them and Ford got rather, warm, or should I say, heated, resulting in the nasties like the software disable of vehicle if DEF is out.

The problem is, Ford still wanted to play the wiggle game, and want to let the tuners and modders have their fun, as long as Ford doesn't have to pay the bill.

So they instituted a very tight warranty denial policy, when they could have locked up the ECM (as GM did) and take the lumps in the market.

Now we have lots of 6.7 Fords running around that are non EPA 2010 compliant, and the bills are starting to come in for the non-locked up ECM (which I suspect allow Bosch to wiggle out of much of the bills, and Ford is left with an omelet on their face.

I shudder to think what is going to happen when this mess hits the Ford corporate program manager.

Thumbnail is that Ford sold a couple million or so of 6.0s, but they paid out $1 billion or so in warranty costs, or say $500 per unit.

Do the math, and it is not clear that the engine portion of the vehicle ever made any money for Ford net of costs.

The truck portion made money, but that would have been made if it had a gas motor in it.

If the CP 4 is as I fear it is, it may be an incredibly expensive bill for somebody to eat.