How are the RV parks faring?

moisheh wrote:
4x4: Have you been to the mainland? I would guess that there are just 60% of the RV spaces available as compared to say 2008. So of course it is in decline. I cross many times a year at Nogales. It is rare to see more than 4 units @ 21. From HMO to Nogales I often see zero units and at most 6. I don't know if you can access the archives with the search engine but every year RV'rs post the number of rigs in their parks. It is less every year. There are some Caravans but they are a drop in the bucket. Just go to any snowbird park in the SW and mention you are heading to Mexioo. The campers will start telling you all kinds of negative stories. Those are the potential new RV'rs but we will never see them in Mexico. If the Churches cannot sell any books it is because there are no new travelers. You are skewing the facts. In order to determine a decline one must have a starting point. I would think most of us are using 2008 and earlier. Why would we be comparing to 2011 or 2010? You remind me of an RV dealer in Canada back during the oil embargo in the 70's. He was being interviewed about RV sales. I don't know if you are familiar with that era but sales were darn near zero. Winnebago shares went down to a few dollars. This dealer said his sales had doubled. Later on we found out that the previous month he sold one unit and this month two. That is what you are doing. The market will never get to where it was. The Mexican Gov. is not interested in promoting RV tourism and the CG owners could care less. Most are old and just waiting to get big bucks for the properties. They spend zero on maintenance and less than zero on advertising. If there has been an increase it is probably less than 1%. Meaningless. You wont find any real statistics.

Moisheh

Las Jaibos in Mazatlan was over 1/2 full when i was there yesterday. More than this time last year. I have almost 20 rigs for a caravan in january, double what I had last year. This months article in Trailer Life this month may have helped raise some interest with RVing in mexico (Link), but I am getting the same story from other caravan companies as well. Amigos Rodantes also has twice what he had last year. Baja Amigos has had to add another set of wagonmasters to fill their demand. Part of it may be the recovery in the US.

Every park we were in on our way down to Stone Island, Mazatlan, Mexico had plenty of empty sites as well as empty beach front sites. Need to get down here an enjoy. One side note, the roads are a bit rough. As Moisheh stated, we were the only RV on the road. Never saw another on the highway in 800 miles.

rocmoc n AZ/Mexico

4x4: Have you been to the mainland? I would guess that there are just 60% of the RV spaces available as compared to say 2008. So of course it is in decline. I cross many times a year at Nogales. It is rare to see more than 4 units @ 21. From HMO to Nogales I often see zero units and at most 6. I don't know if you can access the archives with the search engine but every year RV'rs post the number of rigs in their parks. It is less every year. There are some Caravans but they are a drop in the bucket. Just go to any snowbird park in the SW and mention you are heading to Mexioo. The campers will start telling you all kinds of negative stories. Those are the potential new RV'rs but we will never see them in Mexico. If the Churches cannot sell any books it is because there are no new travelers. You are skewing the facts. In order to determine a decline one must have a starting point. I would think most of us are using 2008 and earlier. Why would we be comparing to 2011 or 2010? You remind me of an RV dealer in Canada back during the oil embargo in the 70's. He was being interviewed about RV sales. I don't know if you are familiar with that era but sales were darn near zero. Winnebago shares went down to a few dollars. This dealer said his sales had doubled. Later on we found out that the previous month he sold one unit and this month two. That is what you are doing. The market will never get to where it was. The Mexican Gov. is not interested in promoting RV tourism and the CG owners could care less. Most are old and just waiting to get big bucks for the properties. They spend zero on maintenance and less than zero on advertising. If there has been an increase it is probably less than 1%. Meaningless. You wont find any real statistics.

Moisheh

I'm still convinced Rv parks in Mexico are a niche business and I'm sure there are exceptions like Baja. I guess Aduana could have a static on the number of rv permits given out in a year, or 10 year permits.

And in spite of my previous comment on going off topic I would welcome a discussion the the economy, but perhaps on a separate thread. Though my father, although a BCom and RIA, used to say that the word "economist" should have the stress on "mist".

This thread has wandered quite a bit off topic.

I would be interested in the numbers of RVs this year, perhaps tallied on a regular basis, how many in each park say on every second Monday or what ever day. Or even monthly, ie the 1st of each month. Tequila probably sees a lot of parks but his numbers would be skewed because he brings a parkfull with him. Kind of like a Canadian Pied Piper :B

4X4Dodger wrote:
Those of you who, despite all signs and indicators to the contrary, continue in this fallacy that RV'ing is in DECLINE in Mexico please post here just one unassailable citation of FACTS, Numbers or a study that backs up your contention.

While Rv trips to Mexico are not what they were in it's high-point hay-day, it is INCREASING and has been increasing for the last two years (counting 2015 as one of those years)

By definition then it is NOT in Decline. It may not be what it was or the location where YOU winter may not be full but that is anecdotal evidence that is too local to be of any use.

I also think some of you misunderstand the difference between Inflation and normal cost of living rises.

Cost of living increases over time with or without inflation as wages and per capita income rises. This is a global truth it happens in every country. THE LAST thing you want to see is prices go down over time. That would mean you were in a Depression.

I find the problem with these discussions is that terminology is not well understood especially in Economics and misused. Leaving a totally wrong picture.

I have no idea who, if anyone, has done proper studies on the decline or otherwise of RVing in Mexico but I can tell you from first hand experience that at least on the mainland west coast and in the interior of Mexico that numbers are well down since pre 2008.

At least half the RV Parks in Mazatlan have closed. The Puerto Vallarta Trailer Park (on Francia) always has space; pre '08 if you had no reservation you would be extremely lucky to find space. El Manglar in Zihuatanejo was always full from mid December to mid January. Across the street, Costa Bella used to have 10 spaces, now has 2 rigs, most spaces now taken up by apartamentos.

In the interior, Guanajuato Always had rigs in, Saltillo (Hotel Imperial) which always had one or two, is I believe (third hand info) essentially closed. El Pozo in Patzcuaro always had a few rigs in but this year has closed.

We did not come down last year and so far this year we find things the same or perhaps marginally better than the previous year though that's very short term and very low sample numbers. Be interesting to see what the rest of the season brings.

moisheh wrote:
The peso may be 12 to the loonie but it does not buy as much as say 3 years ago Fuel,tolls, meat and even veggies are up. Just like NOB. But we shouldn't all be one of those Chicken Little old buggers. Things change. You can never go home!

Moisheh

We got 12.59 on the VISA exchange for fuel, haven't checked the bank statement for the ATM pesos yet. But I agree, prices are much higher here. Fishing (Commercial) is down severely due to higher ocean temperatures (30C IN THE BAY) making for higher prices.

The RV park rates here are up from 2 years ago, one of the most expensive in Mexico I think at $7,200 per month including 30 Amp power. We are running the AC most of the day most days.

Also more restaurants are now taking VISA and Mastercard and have increased prices to off set the significant fees.

El Manglar has a total of 11 spaces, one taken by a permanent resident. Of the other 10, 4 are occupied, a 40 footer is due next week (only one space is big enough) three more due in later this month.

At the border (Columbia Bridge at Laredo) there were three crossing while we were. Only one from the USA, the other two from Quebec.

We met the Quebec rigs at Matehuala. ($364.14 per night, marginal "15" Amp power--too much voltage drop for us to use) No other rigs at Guanatejo, $270 per night, good 15Amp. 3 small caravans booked for later. NOTE $ is Pesos, not dollars!

Those of you who, despite all signs and indicators to the contrary, continue in this fallacy that RV'ing is in DECLINE in Mexico please post here just one unassailable citation of FACTS, Numbers or a study that backs up your contention.

While Rv trips to Mexico are not what they were in it's high-point hay-day, it is INCREASING and has been increasing for the last two years (counting 2015 as one of those years)

By definition then it is NOT in Decline. It may not be what it was or the location where YOU winter may not be full but that is anecdotal evidence that is too local to be of any use.

I also think some of you misunderstand the difference between Inflation and normal cost of living rises.

Cost of living increases over time with or without inflation as wages and per capita income rises. This is a global truth it happens in every country. THE LAST thing you want to see is prices go down over time. That would mean you were in a Depression.

I find the problem with these discussions is that terminology is not well understood especially in Economics and misused. Leaving a totally wrong picture.

Almot wrote:

moisheh wrote:
I cannot speak for Baja but RVing on the mainland has been in decline for at least 8 years. And it will continue to decline. Almot should have stated that RVing in Mexico has lost it's luster ( mainland).

Yes, this is what I meant - RV-ing is in decline in Mexico. We are talking about Mexico here, this is what this section of the forum is for.

4x4Dodger: you see what you want to see.

US economy has picked up over the last 12-18 months but it's not growing at the moment and most projections for US GDP are pointing to decline now:
http://knoema.com/qhswwkc/us-gdp-growth-forecast-2015-2019-and-up-to-2060-data-and-charts

Gas prices in Mexico were cheaper than in the US and Canada for many years, now they are the same or higher.

When Mex govt withdrew gas subsidy in January 2015, the prices for most goods and services have gone up. And they have been going up all the time, inflation in Mexico is high.

Expensive properties (and other developments) do not attract more people in RV, and do not make living here more affordable either.

"People buying waterfront properties since Roma times"? "Has no effect on Rv-ing"? You must've skipped those history classes in grade school. Nobody was buying waterfront properties in Baja in Roman times. This is a recent. And it does have effect on RV-ing here.

You know as well as I do that my mention of waterfrot properties being sought after since Roman Times was not about the Baja. It was as you are well aware, about the historical fact that Waterfronts, be they river, lake or sea are more valuable, desirable and expensive than other types of real estate.

And Yes the Romans were buying waterfront property all around the Mediterranean...and it's still going on all over the world by people from every nation.

The two trends simply have nothing to do with each other.

As for economics I think you should spend more time reading the Economist than depending on little known and suspect web sites. No University in this country will accept a citation from such a site or Wikipedia. It simply is not reliable.