National Park and National Forests Bummer
I camp in National Forest Campgrounds around my home state and with my senior pass I get 1/2 price camping. To my surprise I got a measely 10% discount in the Everglades campground. Huh? It's under a ...
Forum Discussion
Lots of mis-information in this thread.
Retired USFS Recreation manager of 3 million acres and about 35 different developed campgrounds, some under contract, some run by USFS.
The Senior Pass gets you a 50% discount at campgrounds run by USFS.
If the site is contracted to a concessionaire, a discount (of any %) is at the discretion of the concessionaire. Many do grant the 50% discount, some grant less, some grant none.
There are specifications in the contract that the concessionaire must do certain maintenance tasks as well as improvements. However, large infrastructure improvements are still the responsibility of the USFS. I've been retired for 10 years. Budgets were tight then, likely tighter now. During the economic downturn (when contracting "shovel-ready" projects was encouraged to generate jobs) we were able to replace all of our vault toilets with new ones. The old ones were built in the 1960's and some had cracked vaults and weren't ADA accessible. And yes, major construction projects that involve excavation require NEPA analysis. Places that are good locations to camp today (flat areas along lakes and streams, for example) were good places to camp a thousand years ago. So it is not unusual that there may be historic artifacts and remnants beneath the ground in those places.
There is no blanket answer to whether a campground is better run by USFS or concessionaires. Each situation is unique. I've had several excellent concessionaires that did far more for a campground than I could have ever done with my limited staff and especially if priorities were placed elsewhere by my supervisors. On the other hand, I've had some concessionaires that I've had to constantly fight with to do their job, and their permits do not get renewed. Unfortunately, some campgrounds don't generate enough revenue to be attractive to good concessionaires, so USFS ends up trying to make them run better.
I do agree that USFS rangers should have more presence in the campgrounds, both those run by USFS and by concessionaires. The public appreciates seeing and talking with rangers, and the rangers need to visit those campgrounds and WALK through (not just drive through) and have personal contact with the campers.
And a word about contracts: It is easy to say "write the contract so they can do this, or they can do that." But it doesn't work that way. There are very specific rules and limitations on what a local Forest can put in those contracts. And just as a matter of actual business (and any private run campground will tell you this), if you require a concessionaire to honor a 50% discount for seniors (which do make up quite a bit of campground traffic, especially in the shoulder seasons) you have just cut their gross income significantly. Therefore, you may not get any contractors to bid, or you will get those that do a less than great job. And again, often the USFS doesn't have the staff to just pick up the slack.
It is very easy to armchair quarterback any issue on the internet. But the reality of the situation is usually far more complex. (Now stepping off soapbox).
Retired USFS Recreation manager of 3 million acres and about 35 different developed campgrounds, some under contract, some run by USFS.
The Senior Pass gets you a 50% discount at campgrounds run by USFS.
If the site is contracted to a concessionaire, a discount (of any %) is at the discretion of the concessionaire. Many do grant the 50% discount, some grant less, some grant none.
There are specifications in the contract that the concessionaire must do certain maintenance tasks as well as improvements. However, large infrastructure improvements are still the responsibility of the USFS. I've been retired for 10 years. Budgets were tight then, likely tighter now. During the economic downturn (when contracting "shovel-ready" projects was encouraged to generate jobs) we were able to replace all of our vault toilets with new ones. The old ones were built in the 1960's and some had cracked vaults and weren't ADA accessible. And yes, major construction projects that involve excavation require NEPA analysis. Places that are good locations to camp today (flat areas along lakes and streams, for example) were good places to camp a thousand years ago. So it is not unusual that there may be historic artifacts and remnants beneath the ground in those places.
There is no blanket answer to whether a campground is better run by USFS or concessionaires. Each situation is unique. I've had several excellent concessionaires that did far more for a campground than I could have ever done with my limited staff and especially if priorities were placed elsewhere by my supervisors. On the other hand, I've had some concessionaires that I've had to constantly fight with to do their job, and their permits do not get renewed. Unfortunately, some campgrounds don't generate enough revenue to be attractive to good concessionaires, so USFS ends up trying to make them run better.
I do agree that USFS rangers should have more presence in the campgrounds, both those run by USFS and by concessionaires. The public appreciates seeing and talking with rangers, and the rangers need to visit those campgrounds and WALK through (not just drive through) and have personal contact with the campers.
And a word about contracts: It is easy to say "write the contract so they can do this, or they can do that." But it doesn't work that way. There are very specific rules and limitations on what a local Forest can put in those contracts. And just as a matter of actual business (and any private run campground will tell you this), if you require a concessionaire to honor a 50% discount for seniors (which do make up quite a bit of campground traffic, especially in the shoulder seasons) you have just cut their gross income significantly. Therefore, you may not get any contractors to bid, or you will get those that do a less than great job. And again, often the USFS doesn't have the staff to just pick up the slack.
It is very easy to armchair quarterback any issue on the internet. But the reality of the situation is usually far more complex. (Now stepping off soapbox).
