Best 5er for gut and rehab? Most important factors?

Westend, I am still digging. The floorplan closest to what I want off the assembly line was the 2010 Keystone Everest 352 fl (front living room). The LR is open to the kitchen, the kitchen compact, the bathroom towards the rear and it had a 12 foot (?) slideout that enabled you to walk to the back without going through the bathroom. Then it gets more challenging. I'd want to add a toyhauler-type gate on the back for a deck and need stairs to the roof. I'm sure more than one person would say start from scratch!

Added: Then again, the 2006-07 Airstream model A with skydeck and bunkhouse layout is pretty great for me too. I like the commitment to the roof level that the big interior staircase creates. Would want to adapt to a 5er though.

I often wonder whatever happened to my blowover Alpenlite back in 2009, assuming the frame was OK.

When towed away there was nothing left. The 'house' had been pulled off. It went to Denver. It had the Trailair equaflex spring hangers, wetbolts for the springs, lightly used Michelin XPS tires, Trailair pinbox & reinforced spring hanger areas.

Prime candidate for a DIY rebuilder.

C Schomer wrote:
Just a thought and I use my 5er for an example... a Sunnybrook is as rugged as any of them and they are designed, knowing where all the weight loads are, so they put wood inside the aluminum members where those loads will be anchored. If I were to change those load points, I would lose the strength by anchoring things to nothing but the hollow aluminum square tubing. You might be heading for a big mess if you aren't really careful! A friend wanted to remove the elevator bed from the back end of his TH and the mfgr said... don't even think it - it's structural! It also sounds like you would end up with a heavier RV than the running gear was designed for. What about guesstimating the final GVW and starting with an appropriately rated gooseneck trailer to build on. You'd have a better finished product. Craig

Some good points. A guy would have to aware of how the frame is constructed to make sure any future installation could be supported. There are fasteners made specifically for metal framing but the tube has to be strong enough, initially.

FWIW, my scaled weight came within a few hundred lbs. of the rating after I was done. My rebuild wasn't typical because I removed and replaced the appliances, all of the cabinets, the bed frames, the dinette. I added in more robust framing, supports, cabinets, steel wheel wells, and even ceramic tile. I was lucky that the original construction used a large amount of fiberboard product. That stuff was heavy and helped to offset the installation weights. A guy will get an approximate weight in->out after hauling away the gutted material, lol. It is significant.

To the OP-Any luck on the hunt? Forgot to mention, there are a number of resellers around the country that buy from the insurance and finance companies. They sell everything from a burned to the ground frame to a serviceable RV. I was looking at some of the Class A damaged lineup and was able to back away before I got my backside in a wringer. The prices of replacement parts for the Class A rigs is just North of Defense Dept. vendors:B

Just a thought and I use my 5er for an example... a Sunnybrook is as rugged as any of them and they are designed, knowing where all the weight loads are, so they put wood inside the aluminum members where those loads will be anchored. If I were to change those load points, I would lose the strength by anchoring things to nothing but the hollow aluminum square tubing. You might be heading for a big mess if you aren't really careful! A friend wanted to remove the elevator bed from the back end of his TH and the mfgr said... don't even think it - it's structural! It also sounds like you would end up with a heavier RV than the running gear was designed for. What about guesstimating the final GVW and starting with an appropriately rated gooseneck trailer to build on. You'd have a better finished product. Craig

IMHO opinion water intrusion and / or delamination has more to do with the area the RV is kept in, the amount and type of maintenance, or lack thereof, it receives, more than the type or style of construction.

A friend of mine bought a 15 year old Class C motorhome from a retired farmer, the only time it wasn't parked inside an equipment shed was when it was rolling down the highway. It is in perfect condition.

He met the owner of the exact same year, make and model unit at a rest stop on the highway. The other owner was amazed. His unit was badly delaminated and the cab-over bunk was in need of some rot repair.

Gdetrailer wrote:
Ahh to the heart of the matter.

I doubt that you are going to find "low grade parts" to be an issue, as a matter of fact most if not all RV manufacturers use the SAME "parts" just arrainge it in different ways.

My hope is that this is the case. It would greatly expand my options!

I think what I'll do next is compare:

1. A model with the closest floorplan to what I want, and

2. A model highly rated by the RV Consumer Group.

(I don't think #1 and #2 will be the same.)

Then I'll scrutinize the make, specs and quality of the chassis and running gear on both. That ought to at least resolve many of the questions I have.

Then I need to look at wall systems and roofs. While I understand that water intrusion is a huge issue, my sense is that has less to do with the type of wall system than with how well the roof and shell overall are put together. Since I plan to have a roof-top deck added, I assume I'll essentially be re-roofing the unit.

This sound right so far?

Gdetrailer wrote:
JaxDad writes “First off, unless its a single axle trailer, no, you can't overload one wheel, the equalizer between the axles, as its name suggests, spreads the weight over the 2 or 3 wheels on that side.”

Actually multiple axle trailer CAN have more weight on a single wheel, “equalizers” do not distribute the load “evenly” across all axles. Don’t get me wrong they do give but they do not spread the load evenly.


The operative words is “axle loading will be CLOSE, but NOT EXACT”. You are ASSUMING that the axles are "equalized" perfectly, in the real world does not happen that way.


Think of this way, picture a teeter totter, the “equalizer” is the center point, tip the teeter totter towards the front axle and the front axle WILL now have additional weight added to it.

Tip the teeter totter towards the rear axle and now the front axle will lose some weight and the rear axle will gain some weight.

Variations in axle placement, spring rates and even spread of the axles all can alter just how "equal" the load is among the wheels.

If you want to quote to try to frame an argument, please, at least read what I posted first.

I said the equalizer "spreads the weight over the 2 or 3 wheels on that side.” I did not say it equally divides the weight to the 100th of an ounce. I never used the word "exact".

I also said "overload", as in the weight is "spread" over the others tires on that side, so all of them carry more weight, not just the one below the bankers vault someone might install.

As for a teeter-totter, that's a very good analogy, too far fore or aft will alter the center of gravity and the weight balance between axles.

There's a wide spread in weight and balance with any trailer, more so with a 5'er, we're not talking about a small airplane here. Take for instance pretty much the same chassis as the OP is thinking of but in the form of an enclosed cargo trailer. I'd be willing to bet far less of them go down the highway properly balanced than do properly balanced.

The OP was talking about a good-sized 5'er, just how far off level do you suppose a 5'er can be towed? Maybe hitch it to a monster truck and drag the back axle?

The whole thing is now past silly, the argument is over such minute details that its getting beyond just funny now.

JaxDad writes “First off, unless its a single axle trailer, no, you can't overload one wheel, the equalizer between the axles, as its name suggests, spreads the weight over the 2 or 3 wheels on that side.”

Actually multiple axle trailer CAN have more weight on a single wheel, “equalizers” do not distribute the load “evenly” across all axles. Don’t get me wrong they do give but they do not spread the load evenly.

Don’t believe me?

Well you can read the article in the link I have provided below which HAPPENS to come from and ENGINEERING COMPANY.

CLICK HERE

Here is a quote from it..

“The axle(s) should be sized for the trailer load capacity. Usually this is not a problem because the capacity of the trailer is a function of the capacity of the axle(s). Just make sure it is. Note: for multi-axle trailers, the capacity is not the sum of the axle ratings because they do not share the load perfectly even. In operation, the axle loading will be close, but not exact -- and that will depend largely on the mounting configuration.”

The operative words is “axle loading will be CLOSE, but NOT EXACT”. You are ASSUMING that the axles are "equalized" perfectly, in the real world does not happen that way.

I would highly recommend that you read what Dexter axle (a MANUFACTURER of AXLES) has to say about placement and loading of axles..

HERE

HERE

Think of this way, picture a teeter totter, the “equalizer” is the center point, tip the teeter totter towards the front axle and the front axle WILL now have additional weight added to it.

Tip the teeter totter towards the rear axle and now the front axle will lose some weight and the rear axle will gain some weight.

Variations in axle placement, spring rates and even spread of the axles all can alter just how "equal" the load is among the wheels.

SettingOutSoon wrote:
This is a great discussion, thanks all. With my lack of experience and knowledge, I'd be a little nuts to build my own from a cargo hauler. But that would be nice to graduate to. (My son has done incredible things with shipping containers in Alaska.) I can see that whether or not the position of a refrigerator matters a lot, tanks and kitchens must. And come to think of it, it is strange to see so many RVs with both kitchen and bath on same side. Perhaps tanks are on opposite side?

I am looking into custom builders. But I read the average New Horizons 5W is something like $170k -- too much for me.

As for rehabbing, I could use help understanding how RVs differ in their basic structural integrity. The RV Consumer Group pub doesn't get real specific about major systems. I get it that many manufacturers use low grade parts, much of which I'll tear out. But are most built on the same frames (Lippert?)? Do most use similar wall systems? How should I go about deciding which shell is good enough? There are floors plans I really like (as a starting point), but the models are pretty cheaply made and poorly-rated. But if the basic frame and shell are okay, maybe they're a good starting place? How would I know?

Ahh to the heart of the matter.

I doubt that you are going to find "low grade parts" to be an issue, as a matter of fact most if not all RV manufacturers use the SAME "parts" just arrainge it in different ways.

“Quality” is very subjective, what is a “good” brand to one person just may be a “piece of junk” to another person.

What is “good” construction to one person just may be a “piece of junk” to another person.

What is “good” materials and finish to one person just may be a “piece of junk” to another person.

What you are reading about is peoples OPINIONS OFTEN based on a ONE TIME “experience” with a particular manufacturer brand or model. DON’T LET “OPINIONS” of others run your life.

You ARE going to have some “issues” with ANY RV no matter how much you spend on it. RVs also REQUIRE periodic maintenance, a lot of that is checking and replacing caulking on a regular basis.

Construction between manufacturers really comes down to very little “differences” some will attempt to lead you on with “modern day” improvements such as composites, (IE vacuum bonding, laminates, FRP and other techno-speak”.

Understanding that each method has good and bad points.

Traditional stick framing, been around a long, long time typically low cost but yet can out last your life time PROVIDED it is kept dry (water damage is a silent killer). Stick framing IS NATURAL AND USES “RENEWABLE SOURCES”, does not use chemicals, relies on staples and glue, easy to work with, no special tooling.

Composites on the other hand uses man made chemicals (non renewable materials plus hazardous waste) requires special machines, tooling, materials and STILL can be DAMAGED by water typically costs more. Composites are typically HARDER to repair any water damage especially laminated walls therefore repair costs can easily exceed the “value” of the unit.

My suggestion is to quit worrying about other folks “opinions” and go LOOK at the floor plans that you like. While you are physically looking at the trailer observe the craftsmanship, fit and finish of that unit. All the while understanding that there will be some “flaws” that will need some repairs.

Buy one that you like the floor plan and “customize” to your tastes later..