DIY RV Kayak Rack plans

Yet me point out the other salient fact. As I mentioned the subset of welder kayakers who want to do a diy project is very likely small. And so far as I know you have had zero responses from anyone in that category. There was one asking about brands of kayaks that would fit on it so maybe you could count that as one response.

So your market research so far as shown very little interest in your proposed product. You might get more response if you posted good photos of the completed product with and without kayaks. But then a welding kayaker could probably just copy that.

One other thing just occurred to me, this carrier would seem to be limited to trailers. A fifth wheel blocks the hitch receiver since it is mounted above the receiver.

RV kayak traveler wrote:
So, PLEASE stay on topic as it will guide me in going forward. And, as I said, I do appreciate your input, but lets move off of mentioning slip and fal lawyers from the firm, Dwey Cheatem and Howe, senarios :-)

You're not seeing the point, those lawyers are on topic. As soon as you sell your design you assume a certain level of liability. Whether you agree with that, acknowledge that or appreciate that is irrelevant. It's truth. You can be taken to court over a failure. Even if it's not your fault. Say Joe Schmoe buys your plans, welds like a 2 yr old and it fails and people get hurt. Well he's on the hook for that. Guess who he's going to go after to recoup his losses...you. That's the point. Civil court doesn't use logic, reason or legalities. You should fear it. My sister and her husband are both attorneys, trust me when I tell you, the shady lawyers are the topic.

If you want guidance, I highly recommend you seek the advice of an attorney before you even remotely consider offering your design for sale. If you were selling plans for a kayak stand in your garage, that would be completely different but you are talking about an external vehicle accessory. There are legalities, liabilities and engineering responsibilities that you have to cover or just assume.

Remember, this has become a very litigious society and people will come after you before they will admit their own faults. CYA or pay the price, the choice is yours.

edit: I gaurantee you if you don't specify the grade of bolts, specify the quality and number of passes of weld and wire to be used, it can bite you...hard.

edit edit: I'm not trying to convince you to not pursue this, I'm just trying to convince you to approach it smartly and to CYA adequately so your unique design doesn't get you nailed by some greedy moron.

So, PLEASE stay on topic as it will guide me in going forward. And, as I said, I do appreciate your input, but lets move off of mentioning slip and fal lawyers from the firm, Dwey Cheatem and Howe, senarios :-)

So, if I understand you correctly, house plans as an example would fall into the situation you speak of. That the designer of the home is liable when they "sell" their plans to a perspective homeowner. That by me offering a "design" for a two place RV verticle kayak rack, makes the designer liable. I guess I would like to know the legal doctrine you speak of. Again thanking you for your input, but your off the topic of my original request.

Besides, there are legal avenues you have, like LLC's etc., if that was to become an issue .My main reason for wanting to offer the plans, was to give RVers the alternative to the very expensive options currently on the market. I believe for that subset of DIYer, these would be an added option.

rooney77 wrote:

goducks10 wrote:

hawkeye-08 wrote:
Unless you are a professional engineer (with proper credentials) and have business insurance to cover the liability, I would suggest you share what you have done and enjoy the positive feedback. Selling homebrew plans is not a good idea in today's sue happy environment.

If you are a professional and want to make it a business, then by all means go for it.

I'm not sure that is true. Go to YouTube and watch anyone build anything. They'll tell you how to do it and actually do it in front of you. Not much different than buying some plans and DIY. You're still relying on someone to furnish the plan. When I redid our shower at home I watched numerous YouTube vids on how to do it. Lots of different ideas as to materials and such. Reality is it all comes down to the person doing the building. How can I blame someone for my failures?

The difference in YouTube and selling plans is money exchanging hands. There are certain expectations, as a consumer, when you purchase something. That's why businesses have liability insurance and youtube how-tos don't.

Will your rack hold up to any kayak? Have you listed all models to not use on it? Have you specified that only a particular set of models be used? Have you verified weight limits? Lawyers could pick apart your design easily (not saying it's bad just that they are crafty). If you don't specifically say to not do things and someone does it, it's conceivable that someone could come after you. That's why a PE will charge a fortune to certify a design because he then carries all that liability.

If I were you I'd consult with an attorney, usually the first time is free, and see what they say. At the minimum you'd need a legal disclaimer absolving you of any responsibility of crappy construction/welding.

Good point on the money exchange.

" How can I blame someone for my failures? "

It happens every day, people use products in ways never imagined by their designers and when disaster occurs they sue the manufacturer for failing to make the product stupid proof. Just look at the warnings on 5 gallon buckets and ladders for one example.

Doing a YouTube video showing "how I did something" is not selling them instructions on how to do it. If I remember my business law course taking money for the plans transforms the instructions from requiring "slight" or "ordinary care" into one legally requiring "great care". IANL of course. But I would speak to a lawyer before doing this.

Duty of Care

For example you could foresee that someone with poor welding skills (me for example) got your plans and did a bad job of welding this rack. I put it on my truck and load up two kayaks. Driving down the road a 75 mph at critical weld fails and dumps the kayaks onto the hood of a Prius behind me. That Prius is carrying a young mother and her three very young children. She goes off the road and all are injured and the Prius totaled.

You would be up that proverbial river without a paddle.

goducks10 wrote:

hawkeye-08 wrote:
Unless you are a professional engineer (with proper credentials) and have business insurance to cover the liability, I would suggest you share what you have done and enjoy the positive feedback. Selling homebrew plans is not a good idea in today's sue happy environment.

If you are a professional and want to make it a business, then by all means go for it.

I'm not sure that is true. Go to YouTube and watch anyone build anything. They'll tell you how to do it and actually do it in front of you. Not much different than buying some plans and DIY. You're still relying on someone to furnish the plan. When I redid our shower at home I watched numerous YouTube vids on how to do it. Lots of different ideas as to materials and such. Reality is it all comes down to the person doing the building. How can I blame someone for my failures?

The difference in YouTube and selling plans is money exchanging hands. There are certain expectations, as a consumer, when you purchase something. That's why businesses have liability insurance and youtube how-tos don't.

Will your rack hold up to any kayak? Have you listed all models to not use on it? Have you specified that only a particular set of models be used? Have you verified weight limits? Lawyers could pick apart your design easily (not saying it's bad just that they are crafty). If you don't specifically say to not do things and someone does it, it's conceivable that someone could come after you. That's why a PE will charge a fortune to certify a design because he then carries all that liability.

If I were you I'd consult with an attorney, usually the first time is free, and see what they say. At the minimum you'd need a legal disclaimer absolving you of any responsibility of crappy construction/welding.

hawkeye-08 wrote:
Unless you are a professional engineer (with proper credentials) and have business insurance to cover the liability, I would suggest you share what you have done and enjoy the positive feedback. Selling homebrew plans is not a good idea in today's sue happy environment.

If you are a professional and want to make it a business, then by all means go for it.

I'm not sure that is true. Go to YouTube and watch anyone build anything. They'll tell you how to do it and actually do it in front of you. Not much different than buying some plans and DIY. You're still relying on someone to furnish the plan. When I redid our shower at home I watched numerous YouTube vids on how to do it. Lots of different ideas as to materials and such. Reality is it all comes down to the person doing the building. How can I blame someone for my failures?

Unless you are a professional engineer (with proper credentials) and have business insurance to cover the liability, I would suggest you share what you have done and enjoy the positive feedback. Selling homebrew plans is not a good idea in today's sue happy environment.

If you are a professional and want to make it a business, then by all means go for it.

Are you interested in selling them mainly to be helpful to people who want to carry kayaks around, with the prices mostly covering your costs and time in making the plans, or are you more looking towards this as a money making side business?

If it's the first, I might see if there are places that would be interested in selling the plans for you. Places that mainly specialize in boatbuilding might be the best bet--such as Glen-L (who also have a few RV plans) or Duckworks Boat Builder's Supply, for example.

It does sound, from your brief description, like a slick solution for those wishing to carry kayaks with their motorhomes.