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GordonThree's avatar
GordonThree
Explorer
Nov 03, 2015

hot water recirculation?

My humble KZ 200 has a few water lines run outside of the cabin for whatever reason, in the back of the trailer, hidden under the black tank (inaccessible)

My plan is to install a small hot-water rated 12v pump under my kitchen sink, and rig it to run intermittently, to recirc hot water back to the HWH via the cold water line.

this should serve to keep the water warm enough to avoid freezing, which happened last year at around 0F. The tubing terminates at the HWH, and at the bathroom sink, so the fittings and connections were all warm, just an ice plug developed in the outdoor pex.

What I'm wondering, perhaps those who have already done so, how long and how often to do you recirculate?

I'm planning on letting a microchip handle the menial job of timing and switching... something like an ESP8266 module, so I can adjust it via WiFi.
  • I have a switch but if it is going to be <25F the pump runs continuous. About one amp draw from the battery. At these temps I am generally plugged in but the pump will not add much draw compared to the furnace running near continuous.
  • Hi Gordon,

    I don't think that there would be much energy lost--after all the system would return the warm water to the water heater. I'd rather have it too hot and not frozen than the other way around!

    I think smk simply lets his system run.
  • agesilaus wrote:
    Why not use heat tape?

    It would work fine as long as you are on shore power and they have a temperature switch that only energizes the tape when the temp drops below freezing. No plumbing and no pump.


    The tubing in question is inaccessible. It is in a section of the underbelly which is covered by the black tank. I'm not willing to drop the black tank to get at the tubing. There is no access from inside the cabin.

    DutchmenSport wrote:
    That would work for you hot water lines. But what about the cold water lines?


    Hopefully the warm water returning to the HWT via the cold water line will keep that line from freezing.

    pianotuna wrote:
    I think a mechanical thermostat might be more reliable.

    Any chance of enclosing the waste tank area and then using forced air heating? That is what I use (but my tanks are already enclosed).


    If I had planned further ahead, maybe some manner of framing could be built to enclose the tanks, and either light bulbs or a small heater could heat the entire area. My trailer is very very (very) low slung, there's only a few inches ground clearance, I'm not sure there's enough room to enclose the tanks without raising them into the underbelly first.

    Right now I have 130 watts of heat pads on the gray (35g) and 65 watts on the black (20g) but the tanks are completely exposed to the elements. The exposed drain plumbing is wrapped with heat tape, reflectix and gorilla tape.

    lawrosa wrote:
    Im a plumber 30 years..

    Get a watts check valve they use with thier recirc pumps. It uses the cold water as the return line..

    ...
    Its a thermostatic check valve. When temp hits 95 F is closed. It continually opens and closes.

    I would run the pump 24/7 when below freezing


    I'll check that out. Maybe there's a lower temperature available? 95 F would be wasting a lot of energy, I'd think - maybe not?

    RoyB wrote:
    Check with SMKETNER on here on his HYDRONIC HOT WATER setup to keep his RV Tanks from freezing...

    I have played with this concept using the RV Water Heater to heat up my trailer using a heat exchanger... Works pretty good when I tested it. Have not installed it yet...

    I got this idea from another RV guy would installed it is his small floorplan trailer and it worked great fro him...



    Very neat - I think I saw those diagrams before. What are you using for a radiator? My main concern was potability of the radiator's construction.

    There are small copper core radiators for PC cooling, designed to handle 100-300 watts of heat. They have to meet ROHS requirements, which I think would make them drinking water safe as well.

    I might be able to adapt this idea to add some extra heat to the tiny bathroom, without having to use a 120v fan heater in there.
  • Im a plumber 30 years..

    Get a watts check valve they use with thier recirc pumps. It uses the cold water as the return line..

    Thier pumps are 120 volt, but you can sub it for a 12 v if you want..

    Its a thermostatic check valve. When temp hits 95 F is closed. It continually opens and closes.

    I would run the pump 24/7 when below freezing..

    Just cap the ends that go to the faucet if you will not use it that way at a faucet..

    Its made to get hot water instantly to far away fixtures...

    http://www.watts.com/pages/whatsnew/IHWRS.asp

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/Watts-Sensor-Valve-Kit-Sensor-Valve-Kit/100493462
  • I think a mechanical thermostat might be more reliable.

    Any chance of enclosing the waste tank area and then using forced air heating? That is what I use (but my tanks are already enclosed).
  • RoyB's avatar
    RoyB
    Explorer II
    Check with SMKETNER on here on his HYDRONIC HOT WATER setup to keep his RV Tanks from freezing...

    It would use this concept...



    I have played with this concept using the RV Water Heater to heat up my trailer using a heat exchanger... Works pretty good when I tested it. Have not installed it yet...



    I got this idea from another RV guy would installed it is his small floorplan trailer and it worked great fro him...



    You might be able to adapt something like this to do your experiment.

    Roy Ken
  • Why not use heat tape?

    Amazon

    It would work fine as long as you are on shore power and they have a temperature switch that only energizes the tape when the temp drops below freezing. No plumbing and no pump.

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