Forum Discussion

halcareric's avatar
halcareric
Explorer
Feb 06, 2023

CAT scale numbers hitched and not

Hello all. First time weighing our rig after almost a year full time

2022 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 8' bed Dully Diesel 2x4 XLT
2022 Durango Gold 391RKF 42.5 foot 5th Wheel

Full tank of fuel (48 gallons). NO fresh water, grey tanks empty, black tank had maybe 15 gallons. Fully loaded like we normally do.

Truck had my wife and I, plus 3 dogs in crates in back seat. Portable Generator, and portable waste tank with 3 dog X-pens in bed. 2 bikes and an aluminum ladder on back of trailer.
--------------------------------
CAT Scale numbers. Truck and Trailer
Steer Axle: 4,800
Drive Axle: 7,260
Trailer Axles: 13,400

Total GVW: 25,460
------------------------------------------------

CAT Scale numbers: Truck ONLY

Steer Axle: 4,760 (diff of 40 lbs)
Drive Axle: 3,960 (diff of 3,300 lbs)

Gross: 8,720

If I did this correctly, this is my trailer gross and pin weight. Pin takes some of the weight off the trailer axles.

GROSS: 25,460 - 8,720 = 16,740 for trailer gross weight

Gross of Trailer 16,740
Trailer Axles only - 13,400
------------
Pin weight = 3,340


Truck specs as taken off door sticker:
GARW Front : 5,300
GAWR Rear : 9,900

GVWR: 14,000
---------------------------------------------
KZ Spec Tag

STOCK Trailer Gross Weight Rating: 16,000
STOCK Cargo Max: 2,850
STOCK Dry Hitch Weight: 2,570

Of course, KZ doesn't weigh each unit getting ready for shipment nor does the dealer after adding his or customers options.
I have no idea what the stock axles weigh nor do I know what the new axles weigh, same for the king pin.

I have the Flex Air pin box with a rating of 16,000 lbs
5th wheel Reese Hitch with a rating of 25,000 lbs


---------------------------------------------

We have a "Flex-Air" pin box
MORryde 7,000 lb independent suspension with disk brakes. These axles are heavier than the standard


Are we good, or bad?
  • fj12ryder's avatar
    fj12ryder
    Explorer III
    Feb 06, 2023
    Shoot, looks good to me. Similar to what I'm pulling with my RAM.

    Did the door sticker actually show 15,200 lbs. for the GVWR?
  • dieseltruckdriv's avatar
    dieseltruckdriv
    Explorer II
    Feb 06, 2023
    dieseltruckdriver wrote:
    halcareric wrote:
    Hello all. First time weighing our rig after almost a year full time

    2022 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 8' bed Dully Diesel 2x4 XLT
    2022 Durango Gold 391RKF 42.5 foot 5th Wheel

    Full tank of fuel (48 gallons). NO fresh water, grey tanks empty, black tank had maybe 15 gallons. Fully loaded like we normally do.

    Truck had my wife and I, plus 3 dogs in crates in back seat. Portable Generator, and portable waste tank with 3 dog X-pens in bed. 2 bikes and an aluminum ladder on back of trailer.
    --------------------------------
    CAT Scale numbers. Truck and Trailer
    Steer Axle: 4,800
    Drive Axle: 7,260
    Trailer Axles: 13,400

    Total GVW: 25,460
    ------------------------------------------------

    CAT Scale numbers: Truck ONLY

    Steer Axle: 4,760 (diff of 40 lbs)
    Drive Axle: 3,960 (diff of 3,300 lbs)

    Gross: 8,720

    If I did this correctly, this is my trailer gross and pin weight. Pin takes some of the weight off the trailer axles.

    GROSS: 25,460 - 8,720 = 16,740 for trailer gross weight

    Gross of Trailer 16,740
    Trailer Axles only - 13,400
    ------------
    Pin weight = 2,340

    You are off almost 1,000 lbs on your pin weight. It looks like a simple math error. It's easy to do.

    Rear pickup axle weight loaded minus empty.

    Also it looks like you could have your pin a little farther forward, you are taking weight off the front axle. Ideally it wouldn't change, or add about what you are taking off it.
  • halcareric's avatar
    halcareric
    Explorer
    Feb 07, 2023
    fj12ryder wrote:
    Shoot, looks good to me. Similar to what I'm pulling with my RAM.

    Did the door sticker actually show 15,200 lbs. for the GVWR?


    Opps, nope.. it's 14,000 GVWR for the truck. I'll edit my post
  • halcareric's avatar
    halcareric
    Explorer
    Feb 07, 2023
    dieseltruckdriver wrote:
    dieseltruckdriver wrote:
    halcareric wrote:
    Hello all. First time weighing our rig after almost a year full time

    2022 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 8' bed Dully Diesel 2x4 XLT
    2022 Durango Gold 391RKF 42.5 foot 5th Wheel

    Full tank of fuel (48 gallons). NO fresh water, grey tanks empty, black tank had maybe 15 gallons. Fully loaded like we normally do.

    Truck had my wife and I, plus 3 dogs in crates in back seat. Portable Generator, and portable waste tank with 3 dog X-pens in bed. 2 bikes and an aluminum ladder on back of trailer.
    --------------------------------
    CAT Scale numbers. Truck and Trailer
    Steer Axle: 4,800
    Drive Axle: 7,260
    Trailer Axles: 13,400

    Total GVW: 25,460
    ------------------------------------------------

    CAT Scale numbers: Truck ONLY

    Steer Axle: 4,760 (diff of 40 lbs)
    Drive Axle: 3,960 (diff of 3,300 lbs)

    Gross: 8,720

    If I did this correctly, this is my trailer gross and pin weight. Pin takes some of the weight off the trailer axles.

    GROSS: 25,460 - 8,720 = 16,740 for trailer gross weight

    Gross of Trailer 16,740
    Trailer Axles only - 13,400
    ------------
    Pin weight = 2,340

    You are off almost 1,000 lbs on your pin weight. It looks like a simple math error. It's easy to do.

    Rear pickup axle weight loaded minus empty.

    Also it looks like you could have your pin a little farther forward, you are taking weight off the front axle. Ideally it wouldn't change, or add about what you are taking off it.



    Thanks.. Yeah I made an edit to post and added that missing 1k. Thanks.
    BUT, now to me, it looks like the pin weight is over what it should, meaning I have too much cargo in the pass through yes?
  • valhalla360's avatar
    valhalla360
    Navigator
    Feb 07, 2023
    halcareric wrote:
    Hello all. First time weighing our rig after almost a year full time

    2022 Ford F-350 Crew Cab 8' bed Dully Diesel 2x4 XLT
    2022 Durango Gold 391RKF 42.5 foot 5th Wheel

    Full tank of fuel (48 gallons). NO fresh water, grey tanks empty, black tank had maybe 15 gallons. Fully loaded like we normally do.

    Truck had my wife and I, plus 3 dogs in crates in back seat. Portable Generator, and portable waste tank with 3 dog X-pens in bed. 2 bikes and an aluminum ladder on back of trailer.
    --------------------------------
    CAT Scale numbers. Truck and Trailer
    Steer Axle: 4,800
    Drive Axle: 7,260
    Trailer Axles: 13,400

    Total GVW: 25,460
    ------------------------------------------------

    CAT Scale numbers: Truck ONLY

    Steer Axle: 4,760 (diff of 40 lbs)
    Drive Axle: 3,960 (diff of 3,300 lbs)

    Gross: 8,720

    If I did this correctly, this is my trailer gross and pin weight. Pin takes some of the weight off the trailer axles.

    GROSS: 25,460 - 8,720 = 16,740 for trailer gross weight

    Gross of Trailer 16,740
    Trailer Axles only - 13,400
    ------------
    Pin weight = 3,340


    Truck specs as taken off door sticker:
    GARW Front : 5,300
    GAWR Rear : 9,900

    GVWR: 14,000
    ---------------------------------------------
    KZ Spec Tag

    STOCK Trailer Gross Weight Rating: 16,000
    STOCK Cargo Max: 2,850
    STOCK Dry Hitch Weight: 2,570

    Of course, KZ doesn't weigh each unit getting ready for shipment nor does the dealer after adding his or customers options.
    I have no idea what the stock axles weigh nor do I know what the new axles weigh, same for the king pin.

    I have the Flex Air pin box with a rating of 16,000 lbs
    5th wheel Reese Hitch with a rating of 25,000 lbs


    ---------------------------------------------

    We have a "Flex-Air" pin box
    MORryde 7,000 lb independent suspension with disk brakes. These axles are heavier than the standard


    Are we good, or bad?


    Looks like the trailer is 740lb overweight.

    Doesn't mean an instant failure but don't be shocked if it does.
  • halcareric's avatar
    halcareric
    Explorer
    Feb 07, 2023
    I've been told that part of a 5th wheel's weight sits on the Truck. Reason to subtract part of the trailers axle weight numbers. So, if my numbers are now correct, 16,740 minus axle weight of 13,400 is what's sitting on the truck, which is 3340. If I could get away with it, I'd drop the trailer on the scales by it self but you can't do that at a CAT scale
  • dieseltruckdriv's avatar
    dieseltruckdriv
    Explorer II
    Feb 07, 2023
    halcareric wrote:
    SNIP
    BUT, now to me, it looks like the pin weight is over what it should, meaning I have too much cargo in the pass through yes?


    I guess I don't see a problem with your setup. You are well under your rear GAWR. Another number to look at would be your GCVWR, it should be on the tag with your axle weight ratings.

    If it's more than 25,500 I would be OK with it, but your comfort level is up to you to decide.

    When I first started truck driving (real trucks), an old timer told me to always drive 5 mph slower than where you feel comfortable. That advice hasn't failed me yet.
  • halcareric's avatar
    halcareric
    Explorer
    Feb 07, 2023
    I don't go over 65, and if the roads are really crappy, 50 to 55. I will say tho, since we put on the Morryde independent suspension and disk brakes, it truly helps the ride comfort and the flex air pin box also.
  • fj12ryder's avatar
    fj12ryder
    Explorer III
    Feb 07, 2023
    Like I said, very similar to my setup. I pull with a 2018 Ram Dually Cummins, 14,000 lb. GVWR, with a payload around 5,900 lbs. The 5th wheel is a 2019 Momentum 351M, GVWR is 16,800 lbs., and the trailer weighs 17,400 lbs. I don't worry about it, and just motor on down the road. I very much doubt it will self-destruct. :)

    FWIW, I don't know about Tennessee, but some states require a special driver's license if your total weight is over 25,001 lbs.
  • valhalla360's avatar
    valhalla360
    Navigator
    Feb 07, 2023
    halcareric wrote:
    I've been told that part of a 5th wheel's weight sits on the Truck. Reason to subtract part of the trailers axle weight numbers. So, if my numbers are now correct, 16,740 minus axle weight of 13,400 is what's sitting on the truck, which is 3340. If I could get away with it, I'd drop the trailer on the scales by it self but you can't do that at a CAT scale


    Nope. Trailer GVWR includes the hitch weight.

    It's fairly common to see the GVWR exceed the axle ratings, particularly for 5ers where 20-25% is on the pin. For example, our current trailer has a pair of 3500lb axles (7000lb total assuming equal weight distribution across the axles) yet the GVWR is 7686.

    Based the CAT numbers, we have a hitch weight of 900lb with 6000lb on the axles (6900lb actual vs 7686TGVWR).

    No need to drop the trailer on the scales by itself. By taking two weights (truck & trailer vs truck by itself), you already calculated the actual trailer weight....16,740lb per your calculations. Weighing the trailer by itself will come out the same.

    As previously mentioned, not suggesting, immediate failure but yes, you are pushing beyond the manufacturer numbers. So if it does fail, you can't really blame the manufacturer.

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