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outlaw85's avatar
outlaw85
Explorer
Nov 19, 2015

Help finding the right "horse"

New here. Quick intro and the situation. Please bare with me. I'm also venting :)
I've done plenty of tent and travel trailer camping growing up. Looking to do some with the kids. We have a couple state parks scheduled and some general camp grounds.

We were originally looking for a burb or pickup and hadn't found one that fit the bill.

While our truck search continued (gas or diesel.. long bed or short, burb or pickup...etc)... we bought the wagon.

We bought a 1997 Damon Challenger 30RK 5th wheel for what we thought was a great price. It does need a deep clean but everything is functional and at most worn from being a 1997. Nothing is damaged beyond light repairs or good cleaning.

New to any mobile living quarters. The people we bought the trailer from were nice enough to leave it on the property for now and work with us to have one of their friends move it to our house.

Now... we need to find something capable of moving and stopping this thing. The tag on the trailer says Gross is 12K.

Requirements for truck
Price- $16,800 (driving off the lot) Ideally under $14K
Mileage- Depends if you ask me or my other half. I'm OK staying under 250,000 miles MAX (on diesel) depending on documented work history. She wants around 100,000 miles no matter what.
Engine- I would prefer diesel. I'm not sure I would be OK with higher mileage gasser.
Other- 4x4, Crew Cab, front bench a plus. Other things like heated leather, sunroof...nice to have but obviously not required at this price point.
Bed- No hard preference. Read the LB is recommended due to not needing a slider hitch and having larger fuel tank. I do like the LB and would get one if in our budget

Our problem.. The two of us can't agree on mileage:price ratio. We don't have a preference to any of the big three (Dodge, Ford, GM). If we had to make a choice, me-Dodge or GM, her Dodge. Overall, just want something reliable and able to comfortably do the job.

FORD
I've heard and read a lot of the horror stories with the early ford 6.0's. I'm OK with getting one that comes with a warranty and/or has documented work record of being "fixed". These are also the ones in our price range for Ford and around 100-150k miles.

GM
I know the earler GMs (01-04.5) were a pita with injectors being under the valve cover. I haven't really read/heard anything else with these years. 04.5-06 were to look for LLY or LBZ diesels but overall can't really go wrong. I've found a few LLY and non in our budget but with 180-225K miles. NO GO for her.

DODGE
Seems to just be out of budget, period. If they are in budget they are over 300K miles or do not meet one or more of the other requirements.


Is there anything that can be offered in the way of what would be best for towing this camper safely that may set aside the mileage debate?

And on the mileage debate (may be better in a different topic), what are your thoughts on purchasing used higher mileage vehicles? Gas vs diesel at this weight?


Sorry for such along first post. Hope it all makes sense and that I covered everything.

We are suppose to go look at atleast 2 trucks
2004 Ford F250 SD Lariat SB $13995 6.0L 5SpdAuto 111000miles Loaded W/leather bench (also has listed an available warranty for drivetrain including heads)

2004 Ford F250 Lariat SB $13995 6.0 5spdAuto 101000miles Loaded w/leather (has listed that "bulletproof" work was completed)

I did find an 01 2500HD with Dmax SLE for $12995 but has 221K miles...

Thanks,
Jesse
  • outlaw85's avatar
    outlaw85
    Explorer
    Nov 19, 2015
    Based on what Golden HVAC has said. I did go lookup the 04 and 05 ford datasheet. What an eye opener.

    On that note. the GM 2500HD weights around 6000 with a 9200 gvwr. which would be close but maybe doable (3200-2800(hitch/pin)=400 for bodies) **** goes in trailer :) Living on the edge lol

    The truck would not be a daily but I would like to run atleast once a week to/from work.

    And.. as the other half says.. No LB, MUST BE UNDER 200K miles, MUST NOT BE DUALLY.. comparing parking menuvers of our friends parents 5th wheel (2013/14 big bastard) to our 1997 for saying we are fine with SB. If that is the case, a sliding hitch will be a must. I don't have a pic of the hitch on the camper but I don't think there was alot of over hang from the hitch on ours. I'm willing to bet there is quite a bit more on the newer ones because the SB's are very popular.

    Newk, that is crazy! lol Maybe the GM diesel or ford gasser is where we'll start. :D At least we won't have to "always" drop the engine or lift the cab to do work on it.

    Arguments are awesome over stupid stuff... Thank you for all the great info.. I will keep it to myself when picking out the truck. As probably most smart people do when they disagree with their spouse.
    Jesse.
  • newk's avatar
    newk
    Explorer
    Nov 19, 2015
    If you won't be driving the truck much, high mileage is probably okay, but expensive stuff does go kaput on these high mileage trucks, and I would STRONGLY recommend you not plan to drive a high-mileage pickup too much.

    I traded off my 2000 F250 PSD 4x4 a year ago following the second year of $10K repairs! I bought it new and only drove it 6K-7K miles per year for the first decade, but then I took a new job and drove it 30K miles per year for three years. It was nothing too major (clutch was the most expensive), but it was a host of $1,500 repair bills. Seemed I couldn't go for two months without some $1500 repair job.

    It had 151K miles on it when I traded it, and it needed another $8,000 or so in repairs -- turbo waste gate, clutch again (damaged this time by a leaking waste gate), 2 injectors and some routine stuff that was about due, like front suspension work and new brakes. It was clean and rust-free. I got $3,500 for it in trade. I figured a brand new one would have been cheaper. (If you're a DIYer, repairs wouldn't have been so bad, but I always took it back to the dealer.)

    My extensive repairs began at around 100K miles. Had I continued to drive it 6-7K miles per year, the repairs would have been manageable at $2,000 or so per year, but multiply that annual mileage (and repair bills) by five and it wasn't feasible to keep it.
  • Golden_HVAC's avatar
    Golden_HVAC
    Explorer
    Nov 19, 2015
    You HAVE to stay away from the 2004 F-250's. They only have a 8800 GVWR and curb weight in 4X4 crewcab can be over 7,800 pounds, leaving very little for passengers, and no trailer at all!

    Even a 2004 and earlier F-350 SRW is out, only 9,900 GVWR and barely any cargo rating, not enough for a fifth wheel anyway.

    2005 and the F-250 went up to 10,000 GVWR, and F-350 up to 11,500 with the diesel.

    For the mileage and dollar amount that you want to spend, I would be looking for a dually gas engine with the V10. Or a 2005 and later V10 F-350. Everything else will be over the GVWR when you have a 2,400 pound hitch pin weight, 200 pound hitch, and 400 pounds of passengers inside.

    The dually gas engine 4X4 might be in the 7,500 pound curb weight range. It will have around 11,000 GVWR 2004 and earlier, and well over 13,000 after 2005 redesign!

    As for Dodge, the Hemi has lots of power. The older V10 is a rare find without a lot of miles on it, but you might get lucky. IF you are not using it for daily commute (well except in a blizzard) then fuel mileage is not a real concern, with only about 5000 miles a year on it, even 10 MPG is only 500 gallons of gas.

    Fred.
  • Old-Biscuit's avatar
    Old-Biscuit
    Explorer III
    Nov 19, 2015
    12K GVWR 5vr can be easily, safely towed by 250/2500 truck 2002 and newer vintage
  • WyoTraveler's avatar
    WyoTraveler
    Explorer
    Nov 19, 2015
    Being from the cowboy state just felt I had a good idea when you said horse. :B
  • outlaw85's avatar
    outlaw85
    Explorer
    Nov 19, 2015
    First. Thank you for the quick replies.

    djgarcia wrote:
    Just another opinion,
    1. Dodge-diesel
    2. 3/4 ton
    3. I would rethink using the criteria of "miles per gallon" as your primary concern. For me, the cost or mpg of rving is not a concern. Rving has some basic costs that can't really be regulated. If I worry about the cost of fuel then I stay home until I have sufficient $$$ to make the trip. Yes I do try to get the best price for my diesel:)
    4. After you select your truck, really consider replacing your stock fuel tank with a larger auxiliary diesel fuel tank to give you greater degree of choices on where to buy the best diesel price. Auxiliary fuel tanks are not available for Gas engines. I have a 60 gal. tank:)


    1 and 2. I will certainly keep an eye out for the 3/4 ton diesel dodge. Just have to stay within our budget.
    3. I hope I didn't say mpg as a concern somewhere. I fully expect low mpg with a trailer this size and mpg is not on the radar as a concern. The main concern was around total miles on the vehicles. I like your tactics :)
    4. I had looked as some of these for the bed of the truck (if we were to get a long bed). I didn't realize they made them for the factory location. Thanks for the tip!


    romore wrote:
    You are finding it tough to get a clean low mileage unit in your price range for good reason. They are scarce. You are looking at a ten year old especially in diesel and 100,000 miles is simply not realistic unless it was used by a local building /landscape/whatever contractor in which case it was likely rode hard and put up wet.
    You won't get a meaningful warranty on a ten year old vehicle so don't get sucked into buying coverage.Put the money in the bank so you can draw on it as needed.
    There are a lot of horror stories on all of the big 3. Any Ford 6.0's still on the road should have had issues resolved by now, same with older GM and Ram. IMHO an F-250/2500 is barely enough to safely haul your trailer given the 12k GVW, you are looking at around 2400 lb on the pin plus another couple of hundred for the hitch. You should be looking for an F-350 but good ones are even harder to find. Good luck.


    I completely agree which is why I'm ok with finding higher (200k ish) mileage vehicles which there are "enough" to choose from. It's getting everybody on board with that too. Being the truck which offered coverage was near our max. It would have to be next to free to even be able to consider. You also have an excellent point on the age of them and "hopefully" having been fixed by now. Speaking to the 250/2500 near it's safety limit. I did find a 2002 F350 w/7.3 4SpdAuto 3.73gear 190Kmiles SRW SB for $9995. Not sure if we need to be looking at the dually version of the 350 or if SRW would still be OK as long as 350/3500 family.


    WyoTraveler wrote:
    Being from Wyoming I would recommend a foxtrotter. Very smooth ride over a quarter horse. :B You did say horse in your title.
    Lol. I did have to look it up. I do have to say, I can't get the kids to pick up after "their" dogs... I don't think one of those will work out. :D


    shadows4 wrote:
    Definately should be looking at a F350 over the F250's listed. Ford upped the weight capacities quite abit in the 2005 model year. A V10 in a gas Ford is a capable gas motor.

    In a GM the 6.0 I have read is capable.

    Don't know about gas Dodge's.

    As to the Ford 6.0 diesel. It's known problems have been well documented. I wouldn't be afraid of one if it has been "bullet proofed".

    I don't really know anything about Dodge or GM diesels.

    Any vehicle is a gamble with the kind of mileage you have mentioned. That said, my 2003 F350 had 127,000 miles on it when purchased. It now has 167,000+ miles. It has needed some work, left us stranded once, but has been trouble free for the last two years. Although it was stolen this summer, we fortunately got it back. I still think it is one of the best vehicles I have owned.
    Good luck on your search.


    You snuck this one in there on me as I finished my reply :). I will try to focus the search to F350's. Diesel > Gasser as the list of diesels dwindle. I know our friends parents have a GM 6.0 gasser in their sierra ext sb and they pull a larger trailer then ours with 3 slide outs. I'm not sure of the weight though. I guess they are happy with what it can do. Not sure that is for us to follow.. just some noted info. We were stranded once when I was a kid. the astro van broke down and we had to stay in the camper at the chevy dealer.. we called it the Chevy KOA and woke up the next morning to a car show. The memories lol. Sorry to hear of your troubles with it but hope we can find one as reliable as yours.


    Expanding on the excellent info above. Is there an odometer mileage you would be OK with in your search? Any other things to maybe focus on?

    I did find a 2004 F350 SRW Lariat with 95K miles for $16300. Not sure if still for sale, but promising that they are out there.

    THANK YOU again,
    Jesse
  • shadows4's avatar
    shadows4
    Explorer III
    Nov 19, 2015
    Definately should be looking at a F350 over the F250's listed. Ford upped the weight capacities quite abit in the 2005 model year. A V10 in a gas Ford is a capable gas motor.

    In a GM the 6.0 I have read is capable.

    Don't know about gas Dodge's.

    As to the Ford 6.0 diesel. It's known problems have been well documented. I wouldn't be afraid of one if it has been "bullet proofed".

    I don't really know anything about Dodge or GM diesels.

    Any vehicle is a gamble with the kind of mileage you have mentioned. That said, my 2003 F350 had 127,000 miles on it when purchased. It now has 167,000+ miles. It has needed some work, left us stranded once, but has been trouble free for the last two years. Although it was stolen this summer, we fortunately got it back. I still think it is one of the best vehicles I have owned.
    Good luck on your search.
  • WyoTraveler's avatar
    WyoTraveler
    Explorer
    Nov 19, 2015
    Being from Wyoming I would recommend a foxtrotter. Very smooth ride over a quarter horse. :B You did say horse in your title.
  • romore's avatar
    romore
    Explorer II
    Nov 19, 2015
    You are finding it tough to get a clean low mileage unit in your price range for good reason. They are scarce. You are looking at a ten year old especially in diesel and 100,000 miles is simply not realistic unless it was used by a local building /landscape/whatever contractor in which case it was likely rode hard and put up wet.
    You won't get a meaningful warranty on a ten year old vehicle so don't get sucked into buying coverage.Put the money in the bank so you can draw on it as needed.
    There are a lot of horror stories on all of the big 3. Any Ford 6.0's still on the road should have had issues resolved by now, same with older GM and Ram. IMHO an F-250/2500 is barely enough to safely haul your trailer given the 12k GVW, you are looking at around 2400 lb on the pin plus another couple of hundred for the hitch. You should be looking for an F-350 but good ones are even harder to find. Good luck.
  • MarkTwain's avatar
    MarkTwain
    Explorer
    Nov 19, 2015
    Just another opinion,
    1. Dodge-diesel
    2. 3/4 ton
    3. I would rethink using the criteria of "miles per gallon" as your primary concern. For me, the cost or mpg of rving is not a concern. Rving has some basic costs that can't really be regulated. If I worry about the cost of fuel then I stay home until I have sufficient $$$ to make the trip. Yes I do try to get the best price for my diesel:)
    4. After you select your truck, really consider replacing your stock fuel tank with a larger auxiliary diesel fuel tank to give you greater degree of choices on where to buy the best diesel price. Auxiliary fuel tanks are not available for Gas engines. I have a 60 gal. tank:)

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