How to understand Fifth wheels/Weights/ and my Truck

Ah, clear as mud.

No, but he probably wasn't running down the highway at 65 mph either. :)

Me Again wrote:
If every 250/2500 towing over GVWR, but under the GAWRings(AKA tire ratings for the rear) was parked on the side of the roads, the country would be littered with them coast to coast and border to border. Just staying!

Chris

So I was talking to this guy the other day who runs a gen 2 Dodge 2500 diesel on light freight work (truck only) 250 miles a day or so, then he also hauls a tractor and some equipment once in a while, and also a few loads of bales each fall, I think he said he weighs around 27,000lbs GCWR hauling the bales...

Anyway the truck has 612,000 miles on it now, but he did have to change a head gasket at 580,000 - was that because he hauled at 27,000lbs GCWR?

On most pickups, it is the stock tires that limit the RAWR. Replacing the stock tires with higher load capacity tires will "unofficially" increase your indicated RAWR. Notice that your RAWR is suspiciously matched to the load capacity of your stock tires. Replace the tires with larger load range E tires with higher load capacity and you have effectively increased your RAWR. The axles themselves in these trucks are rated for well over 10,000 lbs, so that's not the issue.

The issue becomes that you will be slightly over the truck's GVWR (which was determined using the stock tires as well). If you're OK with that, and still have a rear axle weight under your tires' weight capacities when loaded with pin weight, then you shouldn't have a problem.

We have a 2005 Duramax, 6084 RAWR with the stock tires, but we have 285's with 3750 lbs capacity each, giving us an effective 7500 RAWR. We're nowhere close to that when loaded, but are still over slightly on our truck's GVWR, and have been towing our 12,000 lb loaded 36' three slide, 2 bedroom, loft unit for 4 years with great handling and no issues. Hope this helps.

Me Again wrote:
If every 250/2500 towing over GVWR, but under the GAWRings(AKA tire ratings for the rear) was parked on the side of the roads, the country would be littered with them coast to coast and border to border. Just staying!

Chris

LOL!!:B

Me Again, you hit the nail on the head!!!
The reason is that most 250/2500 run a GVWR of 85% of axle ratings, Take a F150 Max/Max is about 94%, and the F150 Max tow, is about 98% of axle ratings.

I will confess I didn't do numbers, before signing the papers set the 5er on the hitch and eyeballed, truck was better than level, so we signed. We did get a bit of a surprise when we hit a weigh station on the first trip out.

I have a Cougar 281BHS. It is a 32'6" bunk model fifth wheel, with GVWR of 10,340.
Last time through the scales my pin weight was 1840 pounds. The 5er gross weight was 9,400 pounds.
Truck scaled at 8,240 pounds without 5er, and 10,080 with 5er.
My GVWR is 9,900 pounds.

lanerd wrote:
(Snip)
OK, I understand and retract what I said about your statement being wrong. I apologize. However, I think that the majority of people in this situation will "NOT" load their vehicle like they would be traveling just to go get it weighed. It's just too much trouble and you'll always forget to include something. It's much better to weigh the truck like it's normally driven and then keep track of everything you put in or on it when you get ready to pull the trailer.

We used a standard bathroom scale to weigh everything when we would go camping. I also had a Sherline tongue scale that allowed me to know exactly what my trailer's tongue weight was so that I could adjust items in the trailer if needed.

Ron

Not a problem Ron and I agree with you about not wanting to load all the stuff for camping. But if you got most in there you would have a decent idea of what you're working with. And if a hundred pounds is going to put you overweight, you may be working a bit too close to the line.

Those Sherline scales are nice, I have one for the axles on my toyhauler.

And I'll bet that if you asked all those who are towing over their GVWR if they are over their Rear Axle Rating, you'd most likely get a lot of "What's that?".

IOW they do it not because they think it's safe, they do it because they don't know it could be unsafe.

If every 250/2500 towing over GVWR, but under the GAWRings(AKA tire ratings for the rear) was parked on the side of the roads, the country would be littered with them coast to coast and border to border. Just staying!

Chris

fj12ryder wrote:

lanerd wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Easy answer: Weigh your truck fully loaded like you would be going down the road. Subtract that weight from your GVWR, the resulting amount is your payload. That will be the pin weight you'll be considering as your guide.

Wrong! The resulting amount will be the total payload the truck is capable of handling...which includes not only the pin weight of the 5ver but EVERYTHING else you put in or on the truck including driver, passengers, dog, equipment, hitch, or anything else.

Ron

What I was saying was fill the truck like you would be traveling: which would be with "EVERYTHING else you put in or on the truck including driver, passengers, dog, equipment, hitch, or anything else." That's why I said subtract the resulting weight from the GVWR and you'll have what you can carry.

OK, I understand and retract what I said about your statement being wrong. I apologize. However, I think that the majority of people in this situation will "NOT" load their vehicle like they would be traveling just to go get it weighed. It's just too much trouble and you'll always forget to include something. It's much better to weigh the truck like it's normally driven and then keep track of everything you put in or on it when you get ready to pull the trailer.

We used a standard bathroom scale to weigh everything when we would go camping. I also had a Sherline tongue scale that allowed me to know exactly what my trailer's tongue weight was so that I could adjust items in the trailer if needed.

Ron