Forum Discussion

Chuck___'s avatar
Chuck___
Explorer
Jan 04, 2015

Looking for newer RV; How to calculate weight

My wife and I are trying to make an educated choice on a new/newer 5th wheel. We now have a 92 Lance 24 foot unit. I am an electrician and do most of our home remodeling and repairs. I don't want some type of super cheap RV that every time I touch it for repairs the RV falls apart in your hands, and is a nightmare to repair. Looking to keep this upgraded 5th wheel for 10 years plus hopefully.

Pushing it, my wife says we would be travel for up to four months straight each year. I would like to find a nice used 5th wheel because RV's depreciate so fast: 50% within five years.

So, I heard that Redwood 5th wheels are at the top of the quality list and yes, very pricy, starting around $65,000 and upward to $135,000. At this time I would like to have a budget of $30,000 to $50,000 for a nice used unit. Maybe we are just out of our league and dreaming! Also trying to compare Montana, Cedar Creek, Jayco and Hitchhiker, for example.

In the near, say three years, I plan on retiring and would like a new or newer truck and a nice 5th wheel. I find myself questioning about spending close to $100,000 to go RVing four mouths out of the year. But on the other hand what did we save for and after working in subfreezing weather, summer heat, putting two kids through private school and college; just maybe we earned the right to sit by a mountain stream in a comfortable RV. I guess we all have our little dreams.

Please tell us about your Redwood RV or any other suggestions. If you could be of any help it would be much appreciated.

One of my biggest struggles now is to find out exactly how much my existing truck can safely tow. It seems that it is very difficult for people on this forum to explain to someone who knows very little about this subject what the following words mean: pin weight, GVWR, GCWR, GAWR, GHWR. I need to know the exact meanings of these weight words, how to find them, what the safe percentages are to use in calculations.

I am anxious to find out the answers to both of my topics -- please help!
  • randeez2001's avatar
    randeez2001
    Explorer
    Jan 04, 2015
    Chuck - In September 2013 we bought a 2014 Redwood 36RL. We just traded it in on a 2015 Landmark Newport. Our time with the Redwood wasn't a pleasant one. It was in the shop more than on the road and when we were living in it, there was always numerous warranty issues that we were having to deal with. We took a beating on the trade-in, but we had lost all confidence in the Redwood unit. We're hoping the Landmark will go better for us, if it doesn't, we're just going to quit RVing all together. Good Luck!
  • jmtandem's avatar
    jmtandem
    Explorer II
    Jan 04, 2015
    My wife and I are trying to make an educated choice on a new/newer 5th wheel. We now have a 92 Lance 24 foot unit. I am an electrician and do most of our home remodeling and repairs. I don't want some type of super cheap RV that every time I touch it for repairs the RV falls apart in your hands, and is a nightmare to repair. Looking to keep this upgraded 5th wheel for 10 years plus hopefully.


    Just a suggestion. You might look into a good used Arctic Fox. They are built strong.

    Pushing it, my wife says we would be travel for up to four months straight each year. I would like to find a nice used 5th wheel because RV's depreciate so fast: 50% within five years.

    So, I heard that Redwood 5th wheels are at the top of the quality list and yes, very pricy, starting around $65,000 and upward to $135,000. At this time I would like to have a budget of $30,000 to $50,000 for a nice used unit. Maybe we are just out of our league and dreaming! Also trying to compare Montana, Cedar Creek, Jayco and Hitchhiker, for example.

    In the near, say three years, I plan on retiring and would like a new or newer truck and a nice 5th wheel. I find myself questioning about spending close to $100,000 to go RVing four mouths out of the year. But on the other hand what did we save for and after working in subfreezing weather, summer heat, putting two kids through private school and college; just maybe we earned the right to sit by a mountain stream in a comfortable RV. I guess we all have our little dreams.

    You might compare four months of hotel/motel expenses that bring back nothing in resale later to help think through the costs of an RV. That could be around $12,000 a year for a nice hotel for four months.

    Please tell us about your Redwood RV or any other suggestions. If you could be of any help it would be much appreciated.

    One of my biggest struggles now is to find out exactly how much my existing truck can safely tow. It seems that it is very difficult for people on this forum to explain to someone who knows very little about this subject what the following words mean: pin weight, GVWR, GCWR, GAWR, GHWR. I need to know the exact meanings of these weight words, how to find them, what the safe percentages are to use in calculations.

    Start with the manufacturer's towing guide for the truck you have or want. It is pretty well laid out in most guides. Ford does a very nice job even explaining the power penalty differences by altitude between normally aspirated gas and turbocharged diesel engines; and the 'frontal' area deduct for towing a travel trailer or a fifth wheel. Just be sure to get enough truck for the fifth wheel.

    I am anxious to find out the answers to both of my topics -- please help!
  • C-Bears's avatar
    C-Bears
    Explorer
    Jan 04, 2015
    I think your first step is deciding on a general size and floor plan that you both really want. If you come up with such a target make/model then you can start studying how much it weighs and try to figure out how much truck you will need to pull it. Just remember all your "stuff" will add significant weight to the factory listed weight. We added over 2,000 pounds.

    Step two for you would be to get the truck. I would get a little more truck than you think you actually need. We were under on all of our weight limits with the first fiver. Now with the new one we are right at the maximum.

    I also did not want to spend $100,000 so we decided on what we wanted and began looking for used. Our goal was to get "the most bang for our buck". Our first fiver was only 5 years old, perfect condition, 38' long, and purchased for way under $30,000.
  • anaro's avatar
    anaro
    Explorer
    Jan 04, 2015
    You have received some good info regarding weight. To find out more about the redwood, you might want to check out The redwood owners forum and the Thor owners forum as thor is redwoods parent company. You will find all manufacturers make great trailers and all manufacturers make lemons. The key is to find the trailer that fits your needs and your budget. The one brand that tends to stand heads and tails above all others has been the arctic Fox. Some of the older cruisers and carriage fivers had great reputations too.
  • The_Mad_Norsky's avatar
    The_Mad_Norsky
    Explorer
    Jan 04, 2015
    There is a way to get a fairly decent estimate of pin weight for any fifth wheel.

    Course, now this is all from new, manufacturer advertised figures.

    For used, just gotta scratch my head on this one. I think Hitchhiker has an archive on their Nuwa website which may show these figures for older models. For other manufacturers, their still may be a tag somewhere inside a kitchen cabinet or elsewhere that shows these figures.

    Anyway, the easy method is go by the unloaded weight of the fifth wheel, and divide this into the advertised pin weight. This will give you the percentage of pin weight the fifth wheel has, usually between 15% to 20% of weight.

    Then one can multiply that pin weight percentage by the advertised gross weight rating of the fifth wheel to get you a maximum pin weight.

    Example: say there is a fifth wheel showing 11,500 pounds unloaded with a 2,100 pound advertised pin weight. Advertised figures also say that fiver has a gross weight rating of 14,500 pounds. (all hypothetical here folks, just for example purposes.

    Well, 2100 divided by 11,500 equals 18.3 percent pin weight.

    This 18.3 percent times 14,500 equals 2,653 pounds.

    This will get you rough, good estimates of pin weight. Do remember it is the pin weight which is the biggest factor in a fifth wheel. Anyone tells you your truck can PULL it, well they are lost. It is the CARRY factor to be concerned with.
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Jan 04, 2015
    Chuck .. wrote:
    My wife and I are trying to make an educated choice on a new/newer 5th wheel. We now have a 92 Lance 24 foot unit. I am an electrician and do most of our home remodeling and repairs. I don't want some type of super cheap RV that every time I touch it for repairs the RV falls apart in your hands, and is a nightmare to repair. Looking to keep this upgraded 5th wheel for 10 years plus hopefully.

    Pushing it, my wife says we would be travel for up to four months straight each year. I would like to find a nice used 5th wheel because RV's depreciate so fast: 50% within five years.

    So, I heard that Redwood 5th wheels are at the top of the quality list and yes, very pricy, starting around $65,000 and upward to $135,000. At this time I would like to have a budget of $30,000 to $50,000 for a nice used unit. Maybe we are just out of our league and dreaming! Also trying to compare Montana, Cedar Creek, Jayco and Hitchhiker, for example.

    In the near, say three years, I plan on retiring and would like a new or newer truck and a nice 5th wheel. I find myself questioning about spending close to $100,000 to go RVing four mouths out of the year. But on the other hand what did we save for and after working in subfreezing weather, summer heat, putting two kids through private school and college; just maybe we earned the right to sit by a mountain stream in a comfortable RV. I guess we all have our little dreams.

    Please tell us about your Redwood RV or any other suggestions. If you could be of any help it would be much appreciated.

    One of my biggest struggles now is to find out exactly how much my existing truck can safely tow. It seems that it is very difficult for people on this forum to explain to someone who knows very little about this subject what the following words mean: pin weight, GVWR, GCWR, GAWR, GHWR. I need to know the exact meanings of these weight words, how to find them, what the safe percentages are to use in calculations.

    I am anxious to find out the answers to both of my topics -- please help!


    Chuck, just from reading here, Redwood seems to get something of a lukewarm reception. Since you're leaning to pre-owned anyway, look for a nice Cameo or maybe an Artic Fox (or other Northwood product). As far as weights go, there are any number of tutorials out there to help educate you. A quickie:

    Pin weight - simply the amount of weight on the king pin. "Dry pin weight" is what the factory reports as the weight with ZERO load in the FW; no water, no batteries, no propane, no cargo. The only way to get an accurate measurement of this is to weigh the FW at various loads, which means you have to buy the damn thing, first.

    GVWR - simply the gross allowable weight, per the factory. This is the max weight the factory says the unit should weigh, whether it's the FW or the truck. Many people won't hesitate to exceed the TRUCK's GVWR, so long as they don't exceed the max axle weight rating and/or the tire rating. Many others are by-the-bookers and won't exceed =any= rating.

    GCWR - Gross Combined Weight Rating. Simply, the maximum weight of the truck and trailer, per the factory. Again, another arbitrary number that a fair number of people consciously exceed by a bit, though usually with mods that alleviate some issues in doing so. Also a fair number of people exceed this by a LOT, and don't think twice about it. Not hard to tell these guys in a lot of instances, especially at night, when their headlights are looking for B-17's instead of illuminating the road.

    GAWR - Gross Axle Weight Rating. Another factory-set number stating the maximum load on the axle. As I said before, many people will use this as their max weight guide rather than the GVWR, =especially= if they're under the Gross Combined Weight. Different FW's can have wildly different pin weights, so this is an area where it's of great import to know.

    GHWR - Gross Hitch Weight Rating. Related to all the above but, unless you actually weigh everything, is only an approximation. The only way to =approximate= this is to divide the published dry pin wt by the published dry (shipping) weight of the FW. Multiply the published GVW of the FW by this number and you will get an =approximate= pin weight AT the gross weight of that particular FW. (Example: 8,000 lb dry wt FW, with 1,600 lb dry pin wt; 1600/8000=.20. Assuming 10k GVW: 10,000*.20=2,000 lbs pin wt AT GVW.) This will NOT take into account anything you add in the way of payload or =where= that load is. Adding a generator and multiple batteries, which all tend to be at the front end, will massively change the ratio and will skew the ratio. Again, the only way to know is to weigh the thing after you buy it and get it loaded. If you're lucky, you'll find someone who has the identical FW loaded near to what you want and has actually weighed it and can send you real-world weights.

    Hope this helps and doesn't add too much to the confusion.

    Lyle
  • Golden_HVAC's avatar
    Golden_HVAC
    Explorer
    Jan 04, 2015
    To start with, it helps to know what truck you have.

    What weight range trailer are you looking at, and a truck can be matched to the trailer.

    So if you have a 2003 F-350 with a 9,900 GVWR (Just a wild guess) then the curb weight if it has the 600 pound crewcab and 600 pound diesel options, curb weight might be close to 7,200 pounds, with only 1,700 left for passengers, cargo, 150 pound hitch, and 2,000 pounds of pin weight.

    In 2005, Ford upgraded it's GVWR on all the pickups to make them carry about 3,000 pounds in a F-250, 4,000 pounds in a single rear wheel F-350 and 5,500 pounds in a dually F-350 pickup.

    So if you already have a SRW F-350 that is 2005 and later, then the GVWR should be 11,000 to 11,500 pounds and cargo rating between 3,200 and 4,000 pounds. With the V10, you can tow just about anything.

    If you have a 2004 GM truck, your GVWR might be anything between 9,200 and 10,000 pounds. So let us know the GVWR on the drivers side door post, the model year, and perhaps if you can see axle code, it might be a Q or R or Z, it can be de-coded too.

    If it is a Ford, you can download the tow guide here. http://www.fleet.ford.com/towing-guides/

    The towing guide can also explain the GVWR, GAWR, and other things, such as GCVWR. You would need to know the model number, and axle ratio to determine the GCVWR based on what is in the towing guide.

    Good luck!

    Fred.

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