Paying for electricity w/ 50 amp

Buckeye Chuck,

Never been to a Michigan State Park for instance since you live in Grand Rapids, MI? Look at the power post on the back right of each 50 amp site and notice the round yellow circle stuck on the front cover that you instantly see when looking at a site. In the yellow sticker, it says 50 amp and they are all $2 - $3 higher than the sites without the yellow sticker. We see this type of pricing differences very often when RVing in our country during our about 100+ days each year and for the last 20 years of our 49 years of RVing and it's not going away. Go check any state park that has 50 amp sites and many county parks also among the hoards of private parks in your own state. We live very close to Grand Haven State Park and see it almost every day.

How could you not know this?

In many states, the state parks charge for what the site has for hookups in a particular site. Bare sites or primitive = cheapest, 20-30 amp or the electric and water = mid priced, full hookups w/30 amp = next higher priced, full hookups w/50 amp = usually the highest priced. Of course location within the CG affects pricing also such as waterfront etc sites. There does not seem to be any real standard that fits all CG's, public or private.

I have never been to a park that charged extra for 50amp service Been to a couple that charged extra if you planed on using the A/C.

Voltage is the equivalent of the water pressure in a pipe, any pipe of any diameter.

Amps is the equivalent in a water pipe as to the pipes inside diameter area's ability to pass X volume of water at X water pressure (volts). By increasing the pipe's I.D., more water can flow thru at the same pressure (volts).

As RV's get larger in size/length, their refrigerators also increase in size, as does their water heaters, number or size of A/C units, plug in heating units, number of electric lights required or used, size of televisions, Ice maker?, exterior lighting, etc. All today use shore power when it's available in a CG.

Having been on the board of directors for 9 years at a larger RV resort in Michigan, I saw first hand the difference in sites with electric meters readings per same time period usage between 30 amp RV units and 50 amp RV units using the site. Therefore, nearly 20 years ago, an additional $2 surcharge was necessary and was added to any RV having a second A/C on the roof. Don't like it, don't stay! both could win! Smaller less expensive sized RV owners low utility usage never should or be expected to subsidize large expensive RV owner's higher utility usage! I'm quite amazed to see how many higher end RV owners are constantly showing how cheap they really are! It's getting worse, not better.

In answer to C-12V98, It's not only the second A/C the $5 surcharge is for but the long learned difference in large RV units with 50 amp VS RV units with 30 amp. If the cost of electric power continues to increase or there's higher consumption among certain types of RV's, you may see even a $10 surcharge added down the road. CG electric power is a pass thru expense and there are severe laws against the reselling of the utility supplied power for a profit! Research it!

Cummins12V98 wrote:

travelnutz wrote:
Electric is expensive to supply and the more an RV unit uses the more expense is heaped on the CG costs of opperation. It's only right for RV units with 2 A/C's or 50 amp requirements/users/plugged into to pay their own way as it should be. 50 amp users have leeched their cheap way for years by sponging off CG's and it's way past time for it to stop. One may also notice that the 50 amp RV's need or get the larger sites and they don't expect to pay more? Give me a break!

We have had several very large MH's and a 3 axle big Carriage 5th wheel that all had 50 amp cords but never felt we shouldn't pay for what we used or were hooked up to and gladly did. Being a sponge and sucking from those who could least afford it is not very becoming or something to be proud of and rather ugly! Cheap, cheap, cheap!

We want any good CG to be quite profitable as they won't be around if they are not! What good will a closed CG be anyway?

Do you really think a second AC unit will use $5 per day average? NO WAY!

TT in Palm Springs has about 1/2 30A and 1/2 50A they do not charge extra for 50A.. It is just a way for these parks to over charge people. MOST rv's made today are 50A so the old Campgrounds should be upgrading to meet the masses needs. These 30A pedestals are all falling apart, they have paid for them selves now start upgrading!

Most RVs are still 30amp rigs, since the smaller rigs easily outsell the larger rigs simply as a matter of price. As for falling apart pedestals, they can easily be repaired for around $20.00 with new recepticles, but a park would need to make a commitment to repairs and maintenance and I am not sure that is in the business plan of Thousand Trails.
If you are talking about upgrading from 30 to 50 amps, that is a whole other ballgame. You are talking major money, and the pedestal amounts to about 5 to 10% of that cost, assuming the power company can/will supply the additional service to the park. The big expenses in upgrading to 50 services is cabling, trenching and professional services that would be required. Easily $1000 to $3000 per site.

westernrvparkowner wrote:
Yes, some RV parks do charge extra for a 50 amp site. In my experience it is relatively uncommon. We just charge for a site. All our sites are 50/30/20. The only monitoring we do of the power is if someone is doing something completely out of line or wasteful. Is that unfair to the little rigs? Maybe, maybe not. Little rig owners tend to use more of our facilities such as the restrooms and showers, so what they don't consume in electricity they may very well consume in labor we need to use to keep the showers and restrooms clean. The smallest of rigs, the popups, consume as much electricity as the big rigs if they are heating or cooling with electricity, because they have no insulation. And when you really get down to it, utility expenses are really not a big variable in park expenses. You will have a certain amount of utilities no matter what, and you can spend a whole lot of time and effort to attempt to manage it, and you really don't get anywhere.
As for charging for 50 amp service, many parks do it because it appears to be acceptable to RVers. Those who want 50 amp service are not generally opposed to paying for it, so it is an opportunity to increase revenues, which is the goal of any privately owned business. The parks that do charge extra generally have sites that have 50 amp services and sites that do not, so there is no need to police what plug different people use. But there is no standard rule or policy, each park is free to charge however they like.

Good insight!
Much appreciated.

Regards!
jim

When I first started learning about electricity a good analogy was to define it in terms of water.

Voltage is the same as the water pressure in a garden hose.
(Even if the valve/ spigot is shut off, there is pressure/ voltage available)

Amperes would be the number of gallons/ electrons that flow, per second.

Ohms would be the pipe size/resistance

Watts would be the number of gallons/ electrons that flow, per second, times the water pressure/ voltage.

50A...has a much higher 'flow capability' (watts used) than 30A
50A.....120V x 50A = 6000W x 2 = 12000W
30A.....120V x 30A = 3600W
So which one should cost more?

Yes, some RV parks do charge extra for a 50 amp site. In my experience it is relatively uncommon. We just charge for a site. All our sites are 50/30/20. The only monitoring we do of the power is if someone is doing something completely out of line or wasteful. Is that unfair to the little rigs? Maybe, maybe not. Little rig owners tend to use more of our facilities such as the restrooms and showers, so what they don't consume in electricity they may very well consume in labor we need to use to keep the showers and restrooms clean. The smallest of rigs, the popups, consume as much electricity as the big rigs if they are heating or cooling with electricity, because they have no insulation. And when you really get down to it, utility expenses are really not a big variable in park expenses. You will have a certain amount of utilities no matter what, and you can spend a whole lot of time and effort to attempt to manage it, and you really don't get anywhere.
As for charging for 50 amp service, many parks do it because it appears to be acceptable to RVers. Those who want 50 amp service are not generally opposed to paying for it, so it is an opportunity to increase revenues, which is the goal of any privately owned business. The parks that do charge extra generally have sites that have 50 amp services and sites that do not, so there is no need to police what plug different people use. But there is no standard rule or policy, each park is free to charge however they like.

I have to agree with the idea that if you have 2 or 3 ac, w/d, microwave, large hw heater and are wired for 50 amp you should not be grumbling about paying for it. The people with a small TT should not be subsidizing your electricity.

Happy Camping

Dan & Janice

Volts!