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allcool's avatar
allcool
Explorer
Apr 05, 2018

Tongue weight, revisted

My TH has a 13,000gvwr sticker, but in reality probably closer to 15,000 loaded. Thank God for 6 Michelin Ribs...

Did an experiment a couple years ago with reducing my tongue weight to a minimum. Still was probably close to 1700lbs, but made the handling very bad. With excess sway and the need to constantly correct steering to stay in lane with any little gust or a passing vehicle.

Last weekend took my TH back to Phx from Glamis for off season covered storage, about a 218 mile trip.
Loaded my toys over the axles, centered, with nothing behind the axles. Kept about 100gallons of water in the tanks, all in front or over the axles. Full propane up front and holding tanks all empty. All tools/stuff/supplies/etc, everything, either over axles or in front of axles. Tongue weight came in at 3180lbs.

In the past, a 3180 TW would have caused me to change things up. Not any longer. Towed around the storage yard with no WD bars and the Ram3500 barely squatted down at all, still level more or less.

Had a new 2018 Ram 3500 srw crew cab to use for the trip.
The WW TH never towed this well before. Towed like a fifth wheel. No sway at at, none. No bounce at all. Going over the big no stop dips from Glamis to Blythe, around the Border patrol stop, was like no TH was behind me. No pushing/pulling/bounce of the truck or un- steady handling over those dips/whoops. It was a first, incredible.

Then on 10 going to Phx it was amazing how well it tracked at speed with no sway from passing 18wheelers. Even tried to see if at high speed it would sway. Brought it up to 80mph for a short test burst. No sway at all. Even when passing a double 18wheeler.

Some might say its all in the truck. The new Ram3500. But I have towed with them before, with sway and everything else a light a TW causes.

I am a Ford guy and own a Ford F350 Platinum. Have towed this WW with all the big 3, many times. I do like the new Ram's handling and suspension. The motor to me is not as good as the Ford power stroke engine, or the duramax engine. But realistically they all are very very good capable trucks that all can take the big TW needed to have a great handling TH.

The new found superb towing of my TH is from the big TW no doubt.

So, don't be scared of big tongue weight with this crop of new trucks.
They can take it no problem. And the big TW makes towing a pleasure.

jmo
  • allcool wrote:
    Did have S Cali RV doctor do a extensive frame upgrade many years ago to insure no wall sag or frame problems ever occur. And its been solid as a rock, a very heavy rock.


    Dang, I wrote all of that and now read this. I saw this post and must have skimmed past it.

    Ok- so let this be a cautionary tale for others then. :D
  • allcool wrote:
    My TH has a 13,000gvwr sticker, but in reality probably closer to 15,000 loaded. Thank God for 6 Michelin Ribs...


    I thought the same thing with my bunkhouse fifth wheel. Fulltiming, I ran overloaded for about 2 years (16,800 lbs. vs. 15,800 lbs.). I had an air pinbox, replaced leaf springs, added shocks, and upgraded the wheels/tires to 17.5" commercial trailer tires.

    I finally paid the piper: non-impact frame damage.

    My frame buckled at the axles. The cross-member "supports" that were there twisted and broke. One basically pulled itself through the I-beam of the frame itself.

    I was under axle rating (barely). And upgraded tires because I did an individual wheel weights weighing and found that 1 tire was overloaded and 2 were maxed out with the LR E Maxxis tires I had on at the time.


    First look at the frame damage:




    Tire was rubbing the slide bar and put a hole into it:




    After removing the tire, I could see the frame issues better:




    After cutting it out, you can see how flimsy and how bent up the cross-member supports are:




    Here's the one that about pulled itself through the I-beam:




    To each their own, but I won't run a trailer overloaded
  • Old-Biscuit wrote:
    Tongue/Pin weight has always been the major factor in stable towing.

    2000# OVER GVWR is a bit much
    Real question is how close are you on axle/tire load ratings


    Yep, I agree.
    But not much of a choice since more or less empty weight is 11,800. Then add almost 2000lbs of fuel/water/propane. Then add a SxS at 1500lbs...

    WW weight rating stickers from my era are not what I'd call accurate, and from what I've been told were more for legal insurance/licensing/towing issues in Cali..? whatever that means.

    Did have S Cali RV doctor do a extensive frame upgrade many years ago to insure no wall sag or frame problems ever occur. And its been solid as a rock, a very heavy rock.

    Ribs are 3042lb load rated each. Axles are 6000lbs each so that puts me at 18,000.

    Then subtract 3180tw from the 15,000total TH weight, and should be well under the axle/tire limits. So actually the more TW takes away from the TH axles giving less load on the trailer tires/axles..? Another reason to keep TW high...lol.
  • Tongue/Pin weight has always been the major factor in stable towing.



    2000# OVER GVWR is a bit much
    Real question is how close are you on axle/tire load ratings