Towing help - again

First off, Thanks to all for their comments. Weather I like the outcome or not, it is what it is. The vehicle is a Gas engine. So my concerns or questioning as well as others. Why could the same vehicle with different gears or a diesel engine haul that much more weight. anywhere from 2 to 4 thousand pounds. I am still a bit confused. My previous vehicle had a towing capacity of 6400 lbs. and we towed around about 7200 pounds before we really got into the weight thingy. But we did it, yes up big long hills at about 25 to 40 MPH and after 160 K miles on it, had proceeded to go through a rear end, an engine and a transmission. This all at around 100 K miles. So I am almost inclined to by the trailer we like, shipping weight of 9255 lbs. and a carrying capacity of 2915 lbs. deal with it for a bit and then either trade in the truck or upgrade the gearing to 4:10. or what about 3:93 gears. anyhow, my info and I appreciate the input you all have provided. Additional input is welcome and appreciated. Good Luck & Be Safe ! ! !

There isn't a single hard part, or programming, difference between my 3500 SRW and a 2500 in 2005 that has any bearing on GCWR.

Traditionally GCWR varies by series 2500<3500SRW<3500DRW. Even thou many, if not all, of the parts that determine GCWR are the same and interchangeable.

Just like GVWR between a 2500 and 3500 SRW is different despite many 2500/3500 SRW's having no difference in physical limitations.

NC Hauler wrote:

AH64ID wrote:
Looking at the weights I am going to say it's a 6.0L gas truck, which does put the tow rating at 10,000 and GCWR at 16,000. 4.10's would bump it to 18,500. What I thought was interesting was that going to a 3500 (SRW or DRW) doesn't change the GCWR.

I agree with Coach, the floor plan is very important so make sure it's not a compromise too far in either direction.

Going to a 3500 DRW truck doesn't get you any more GCWR than the 2500 Truck!!!!!:E You mean to tell me that a 3500 DRW truck only has a GCWR of 16,000#, same as the 2500??
I find that really hard to believe...Even if you're talking about a 6.0 gasser in a 3500 DRW truck, I find it extremely hard to believe that GCWR would be the same as on a 2500...if so, why even bother to manufacture a 3500 SRW or 3500DRW with a 6.0 gas engine in it? Why waste a perfectly good rear axle and put FOUR wheels on the back of it if it only has a puny 16,000# GCWR??? That's amazing, don't think I've heard of that before, but again, if it's a gasser, maybe GMC was covering themselves for the limitations of the 6.0 and the tranny it came with..curious, very curious.

Keep in mind GCVWR, is based on the ability to move a certain weight with a given drive train. The same drive train in a larger TV will not make a difference in what it can move. AH64ID posted that his on a 3500 is 1,000# more than the same 2500 with same drive train, maybe, just maybe they add a little for bigger brakes or GVWR.
That said the GCVWR is really a rating of the ability to move a given weight, that is why as the gear ratios get numerically higher (4.10 from a 3.73 will tow more) the GCVWR goes up.

It is possible that AH64ID's 3500 has a lower gear ratio, that the 2500 he is comparing it to.

NC Hauler wrote:

AH64ID wrote:
Looking at the weights I am going to say it's a 6.0L gas truck, which does put the tow rating at 10,000 and GCWR at 16,000. 4.10's would bump it to 18,500. What I thought was interesting was that going to a 3500 (SRW or DRW) doesn't change the GCWR.

I agree with Coach, the floor plan is very important so make sure it's not a compromise too far in either direction.

Going to a 3500 DRW truck doesn't get you any more GCWR than the 2500 Truck!!!!!:E You mean to tell me that a 3500 DRW truck only has a GCWR of 16,000#, same as the 2500??
I find that really hard to believe...Even if you're talking about a 6.0 gasser in a 3500 DRW truck, I find it extremely hard to believe that GCWR would be the same as on a 2500...if so, why even bother to manufacture a 3500 SRW or 3500DRW with a 6.0 gas engine in it? Why waste a perfectly good rear axle and put FOUR wheels on the back of it if it only has a puny 16,000# GCWR??? That's amazing, don't think I've heard of that before, but again, if it's a gasser, maybe GMC was covering themselves for the limitations of the 6.0 and the tranny it came with..curious, very curious.

According to the 2010 GMC owners manual it's the same... so yes I have the same thoughts as you on the limitations of the 6.0 and drivetrain associated with it.

In 2010 all 2500/3500's with a 6.0L and 3.73's have a 16,000 GCWR and with 4.10's it's 18,500. Other years may vary.

http://www.gmc.com/content/dam/GMC/global/master/nscwebsite/en/home/Owners/Manuals/01_Images/2010-sierra-manual.pdf

page 439

wing_zealot wrote:
Your issue is Hp not weight. If you are ok with it losing speed and downshifting as it goes up hills you're fine. The steeper the hill the more it will struggle (sorta like them big steel haulers you see going 40mph up the hill). If you want better performance (Hp like) you can change the rear end to a 4:10 and the truck will not struggle as much (about a $650 fix).

I am curious where you can get a 4x4 re-geared for $650???

Parts alone are more than that, especially if you want OEM gears.

Your issue is Hp not weight. If you are ok with it losing speed and downshifting as it goes up hills you're fine. The steeper the hill the more it will struggle (sorta like them big steel haulers you see going 40mph up the hill). If you want better performance (Hp like) you can change the rear end to a 4:10 and the truck will not struggle as much (about a $650 fix).

AH64ID wrote:
Looking at the weights I am going to say it's a 6.0L gas truck, which does put the tow rating at 10,000 and GCWR at 16,000. 4.10's would bump it to 18,500. What I thought was interesting was that going to a 3500 (SRW or DRW) doesn't change the GCWR.

I agree with Coach, the floor plan is very important so make sure it's not a compromise too far in either direction.

Going to a 3500 DRW truck doesn't get you any more GCWR than the 2500 Truck!!!!!:E You mean to tell me that a 3500 DRW truck only has a GCWR of 16,000#, same as the 2500??
I find that really hard to believe...Even if you're talking about a 6.0 gasser in a 3500 DRW truck, I find it extremely hard to believe that GCWR would be the same as on a 2500...if so, why even bother to manufacture a 3500 SRW or 3500DRW with a 6.0 gas engine in it? Why waste a perfectly good rear axle and put FOUR wheels on the back of it if it only has a puny 16,000# GCWR??? That's amazing, don't think I've heard of that before, but again, if it's a gasser, maybe GMC was covering themselves for the limitations of the 6.0 and the tranny it came with..curious, very curious.

rhagfo wrote:

AH64ID wrote:
Looking at the weights I am going to say it's a 6.0L gas truck, which does put the tow rating at 10,000 and GCWR at 16,000. 4.10's would bump it to 18,500. What I thought was interesting was that going to a 3500 (SRW or DRW) doesn't change the GCWR.

I agree with Coach, the floor plan is very important so make sure it's not a compromise too far in either direction.

GCVWR is a function of the power train and not the ability to carry the weight. This is why changing to a lower gear ratio with the same engine and trans increases the GCVWR.

Correct, but typically a 3500 will have a higher GCWR with the same drive train than a 2500. For my MY it's a 1,000lb difference, which isn't much but a difference none the less.

GCWR is more about acceleration and maintaining speed than anything else.

rhagfo wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

jffnkrn wrote:
I apologize in advance for some duplicate info from the past, but I need some help clarifying a weight issue. My truck, 2010 GMC Sierra 4X4 HD2500 with the extended cab, standard box 3:73 gears. Towing capacity of 10,000lbs. GCVWR of 16000 lbs. actual scale readings with full gas and passengers is 6840 lbs. front axle is 3760 lbs. and rear axle is 3080 lbs. We have determined that towing a fifth wheel with a GVWR of 10500 lbs. or less is very doable. So here is the thought. Instead of keep looking for a light weight fifth wheel, am I ok to purchase one with an unloaded vehicle weight rating of say 9000 lbs. and add my 1000 to 1500 lbs. of stuff? This would be even if I purchase a unit with a GVWR of say 11,500 or 12,000. I know I kinda beat this do death at an early time, can't find the posting, probably 6 months ago. But we are getting closer to March / April our financial purchase time frame. Thanks for your help, I hop I have provided enough info. Jeff. OH Good Luck & Be Safe ! ! !

What engine, gas or Duramax /Allison combo? Are you sure GCVW is only 16,000#?

Please do yourself a favor and no matter what you tell yourself about what you'll load the 5er to, PLEASE ignore "dry weight" and go by GVW of the 5er when figuring what your truck can tow. Use 20% of that to figure pin weight, (better safe than sorry)...

I would think that a 2010 GMC 2500 would be have no problem towing a 5er with a GVW of 10500#....I owned an 03' 2500 ext cab/short bed/4X4/D/A and towed a 5er with a GVW of 12,000#, but that was with D/A, and it only comes with a 3:73, thus the reason I asked if your truck is equipped with the Duramax...16,000# seems low for that truck or am I missing something.

You are missing that based of the OP statement, he is likely running a 6.0 with 3.73 gears. Could he move that 12,000 GVWR 5er with the TV, likely until he came to the first real hill!!

This is not a case of the tail wagging the dog, just that likely not the correct running dear to move the load.

Ok, I was wondering why GCWR was so low...I had a D/A with 3:73....I haven't kept up with Chevy configurations since 07.5', thus the reason I was asking, and made my statements based on "my guess"...and "IF" it was D/A.....

Don't know much about newer 6.0, but having driven one years ago, opted instead for the 8.1 while I was still running with gas engine...

AH64ID wrote:
Looking at the weights I am going to say it's a 6.0L gas truck, which does put the tow rating at 10,000 and GCWR at 16,000. 4.10's would bump it to 18,500. What I thought was interesting was that going to a 3500 (SRW or DRW) doesn't change the GCWR.

I agree with Coach, the floor plan is very important so make sure it's not a compromise too far in either direction.

GCVWR is a function of the power train and not the ability to carry the weight. This is why changing to a lower gear ratio with the same engine and trans increases the GCVWR.

Looking at the weights I am going to say it's a 6.0L gas truck, which does put the tow rating at 10,000 and GCWR at 16,000. 4.10's would bump it to 18,500. What I thought was interesting was that going to a 3500 (SRW or DRW) doesn't change the GCWR.

I agree with Coach, the floor plan is very important so make sure it's not a compromise too far in either direction.