Forum Discussion

Paul39's avatar
Paul39
Explorer
Sep 27, 2023

Truck / 5th Wheel Combo - Do the numbers add up?

Looking for input on my potential truck/5th wheel combo. A little background first. I have had trailers, but this would be my first 5th wheel. As I am opening this up to the weight police, I am looking for honest opinions and I don’t want to make a costly mistake. With that said, my opinion (as an automotive engineer) is that I’m a rule follower (regarding GVWR, etc) but I have no problem being close to the limit as I know there is a significant safety factor already built into those numbers. With that said – here is what I am looking at:

Tow vehicle
2023/4 Ford F250 4x4 7.3l gas short bed well optioned (maybe King Ranch)
From what I have found on the internet
Rear GAWR 6,340
Front GAWR 5,600
Tow Capacity 16,500
Payload 3,923
GVWR 10,500
Curb Weight 6,480 – 6550 (I see different amounts depending on what site I go to)

So – my math says 10,500 GVWR – 7100 Truck (added 550lbs for people/etc) – 200lbs for hitch (may need a slider) leaves 3,200 for pin weight. Assuming a 22% pin weight puts me at 14,500lb max 5th wheel.

I’m looking at a Cougar 290RLS
Dry Wt 10,124 lbs
Hitch 1,805
GVWR 12,200
Length 33’8”

I know many will say just get the F350, but the truck will be used 95% as a daily driver and 5% towing. Seems like I have a reasonable margin. ~4,000 lbs on tow capacity, ~500 lbs cargo capacity/GVWR assuming trailer is loaded to GVWR.

Does anyone see flaws in my logic before a spend a small fortune on these toys? Is the Curb weight of 6,550 for a short wb 4x4 7.3l crew seem right? I looked up all the specs for this particular truck and it seems consistent in that range, but comments on other posts look like the truck weight could be more. Also – any comments on the Cougar 290RLS?
  • RockyMt's avatar
    RockyMt
    Explorer II
    Sep 27, 2023
    you will not know the real weight of the trailer until you weight it. Dry weight is before they add extras.
  • Thermoguy's avatar
    Thermoguy
    Explorer II
    Sep 27, 2023
    I have a 2015 Chev 2500 with similar numbers to your F250 Mine is a Diesel, but the 7.3 is a very capable motor. My trailer is 32' and weighs a little more per the weights I have on the tags and from scales. I have no problems with that combo. I would prefer a 1 ton just so I can upgrade down the road. You might drive both, I don't think there is much a a difference in how they drive, just what your payload capabilities are. But, aside from that, your comfortably in F250 territory.
  • Paul39's avatar
    Paul39
    Explorer
    Sep 27, 2023
    RockyMt wrote:
    you will not know the real weight of the trailer until you weight it. Dry weight is before they add extras.


    Understood - I am assuming trailer is loaded to the GVWR of the trailer. If the numbers on the trailer (empty/GVWR) are not accurate, unfortunately I won’t know until it’s purchased
  • laknox's avatar
    laknox
    Nomad
    Sep 27, 2023
    Paul39 wrote:
    Looking for input on my potential truck/5th wheel combo. A little background first. I have had trailers, but this would be my first 5th wheel. As I am opening this up to the weight police, I am looking for honest opinions and I don’t want to make a costly mistake. With that said, my opinion (as an automotive engineer) is that I’m a rule follower (regarding GVWR, etc) but I have no problem being close to the limit as I know there is a significant safety factor already built into those numbers. With that said – here is what I am looking at:

    Tow vehicle
    2023/4 Ford F250 4x4 7.3l gas short bed well optioned (maybe King Ranch)
    From what I have found on the internet
    Rear GAWR 6,340
    Front GAWR 5,600
    Tow Capacity 16,500
    Payload 3,923
    GVWR 10,500
    Curb Weight 6,480 – 6550 (I see different amounts depending on what site I go to)

    So – my math says 10,500 GVWR – 7100 Truck (added 550lbs for people/etc) – 200lbs for hitch (may need a slider) leaves 3,200 for pin weight. Assuming a 22% pin weight puts me at 14,500lb max 5th wheel.

    I’m looking at a Cougar 290RLS
    Dry Wt 10,124 lbs
    Hitch 1,805
    GVWR 12,200
    Length 33’8”

    I know many will say just get the F350, but the truck will be used 95% as a daily driver and 5% towing. Seems like I have a reasonable margin. ~4,000 lbs on tow capacity, ~500 lbs cargo capacity/GVWR assuming trailer is loaded to GVWR.

    Does anyone see flaws in my logic before a spend a small fortune on these toys? Is the Curb weight of 6,550 for a short wb 4x4 7.3l crew seem right? I looked up all the specs for this particular truck and it seems consistent in that range, but comments on other posts look like the truck weight could be more. Also – any comments on the Cougar 290RLS?


    You won't know the actual payload of that =specific= truck until you lay eyes on the sticker on either the door or the B pillar. You may have basic specs for a base truck and you could easily have another couple hundred lbs of options that take off your payload.

    I'm with those that say to go to a 350 SRW. You're likely to have the truck a lot longer than the FW, so if you want to "move on up" to a larger FW, you won't have to worry about it. I did just that and I can tell you that my '22 3500 rides a =whole= lot better than my old '02 2500 D'max. Ride quality, unloaded, is much better, even though I know I'm still driving a truck.

    Also, with the newer trucks and FWs, you'll have much less clearance issues and, with a 4x4, the turning radius will be larger than a 2x4, giving you a bit more clearance. Slider is entirely up to you but, IMO, not necessary. On my 3500, I set my B&W Companion to the =rear=, given that my FW only grosses 10.5k, so that gives me even more clearance. Yeah, at nearly 13k GVW, the Cougar will make a 350 squat a bit if the hitch is to the rear, but not badly, IMO.

    Lyle
  • JIMNLIN's avatar
    JIMNLIN
    Explorer III
    Sep 28, 2023
    I’m looking at a Cougar 290RLS
    Dry Wt 10,124 lbs
    Hitch 1,805
    GVWR 12,200
    Length 33’8”

    The new gen F250 7.3 gasser 6340 rawr will make a fine part time/full time tow vehicle for a 12,200 gvwr 5th wheel rv trailer.

    If your looking at 14k+ lb 5th wheel rv trailer then a F350 srw with the heavier duty 7230 rawr would be a better choice.
  • Grandpop's avatar
    Grandpop
    Explorer
    Sep 28, 2023
    I am shopping for a 22 F250/350 King Ranch or Platinum right now to pull a future tt, so going thru same issues. One can't believe the Ford published payload numbers UNLESS you are shopping a completely stripped truck. Any options or trim packages add weight to the truck that reduces the Ford published payload numbers on your optioned truck.

    Also never saw any trailer loaded hitch weight numbers (or ranges), so no way to know for sure what trailer you are looking at might be placing on the truck. All depends on how much you take with you and where you place it in you trailer.

    Ford only makes a King R or Plat in crew cab 6.75' bed. The door jamb sticker I saw yesterday on f250 7.3 KR 3:55 rear crew cab 10k gvwr 6.75 bed had 2,620 payload (pretty sure the spec was 3,470 lbs). Makes the base truck 7,380 lbs by itself.

    Have not seen any method to obtain real world Ford truck weights except look at a lot of door jamb stickers. For me, that is difficult as not many loaded trucks near me. Dealers have a system that approximates numbers by trim packages, but 2 I checked the stickers on were both less than Ford numbers. Depends on final options on your truck.

    Also saw a 2020 F250 Lariat Tremor cc 6.75 7.3 4:30 10k with payload sticker of 2815 lbs. The 23/24 models are different than the 2020s I am looking at, but these should give you some indication of real world sticker numbers on your search. If you are looking at an optioned truck I would deduct at least 700-800 lbs from published payload.
  • Grandpop's avatar
    Grandpop
    Explorer
    Sep 28, 2023
    Found the sticker photos from a 19 F350 Lariat Tremor cc 6.75 7.3 4:30 11,300 gvwr that I drove Monday which had 4,061 payload.

    Wife and I experienced the infamous "death wobble" while test driving that truck with 55k miles on it at 65 mph on smooth expressway when left side hit a bump. Pretty terrifying experience. Got real squirrelly real quick. Hit the brakes quick but traffic right behind me so couldn't slam them on. Glad I didn't loose control or get rear ended. Truck advertised as Ford certified with warranty, so was supposedly already gone thru. Only reason to drive that truck was it was the only gas F350 Lariat within 50 miles of me.
  • valhalla360's avatar
    valhalla360
    Navigator
    Sep 28, 2023
    I would assume 25% pin weight when guestimating but that should still be OK or a 12k lb GVWR trailer.

    By 14k lb, I would be looking at 1 ton trucks and considering moving up to diesel.

    Since you don't have the truck yet, a long bed makes more sense for a 5er.
  • MFL's avatar
    MFL
    Nomad II
    Sep 28, 2023
    "Curb Weight 6,480 – 6550 (I see different amounts depending on what site I go to)"

    I think the truck you are considering will likely be at least 7K curb wt. Still not a problem, the truck will be capable.

    The number most important for towing a FW is the RAWR of 6,340, which will work for the trailer described.

    You don't need a long bed, or a sliding hitch, as the newer FWs are designed to tow with a standard bed truck. Get the B&W hitch to fit the Ford OEM pucks. It is adjustable ahead/back, and a great hitch. Hitch weighs just over 150 lbs, and is a very user friendly hitch.

    I agree, if at some point, you want a larger FW, weighing 14-16K, then a 350 would be best.

    Jerry
  • Paul39's avatar
    Paul39
    Explorer
    Sep 28, 2023
    Thanks for the responses. A few interesting points.

    For 2023 the King Ranch (and other versions) went from a standard 10,000 GVWR to 10,500-10,600 so payload has been increased (at least on paper - as the curb weights are very similar)over the previous years

    The 6480 curb weight is for the 4x4 crew 7.3l gas 6.75 bed - but as stated by others is not for the optioned out King Ranch - but a base vehicle.

    I still might be ok with a 12,200 lb trailer (that is the trailers GVWR, not dry weight) but obviously the margin is getting low.

    I'm set on the 6.75ft bed - as it will be 95% empty driving and 5% towing. For same reason I would like to stay to the F250 and not go to the F350. The 5th wheel (12,200 lbs) will be the largest I'm looking at and do not see myself upgrading. Too much money into these toys for a do-over. I'm looking at several 5vers a little smaller (30' x 11,000 lbs). I'm more inclined to downsize the trailer than upside the truck. But - the wife does like the larger one :)

    I'm going to stop by the dealership today and look at trucks. Will be checking the door stickers out and would like to see the new on board scales in the trucks - which will probably cause more confusion because I'm sure it will give another set of inconsistent numbers.

    Thanks again to those that responded.

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