I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question. I have learned that my TV payload is 10,000 lbs. and that the GCWR is 23,500 lbs. The TV with passengers and EXTREMELY LITTLE cargo is 8280 lbs. This leaves 15,220 lbs. for trailer, hitch, and cargo. If I allow 300 lbs. for the hitch and 1200 lbs. for cargo, I have 13,720 lbs. for trailer, right? Not so fast. If the TV only carries 10,000 lbs. and we weigh 8280, we only have 1720 lbs. left for pin weight. What about the weight of the hitch? If the hitch weighs 300 lbs. we now only have 1420 lbs. left for pin weight. Why do manufacturers sell units as 1/2 ton towable when I can't get the math to work for our F-250 diesel?

Isnt math fun? NOT!Take your truck loaded ready to travel to the scales and get an accurate weight. Add your 300 pounds for hitch weight.Subtract that number from the trucks GVWR as listed on the drivers door post. That is your net cargo capacity, or max pin weight you can add before exceeding the mfgs numbers. It is one of the problems with 2500 series teucks and fifth wheel trailers. Especially diesel trucks. That big chunk of cast iron really eats up cargo capacity.

These are not simultaneous equations, they don't all have to work out together. It is perfectly fine for the axles to have one maximum and the trailer weight to be entirely different. The deal is you check each spec and make sure all of them are within limits. If any one of them is over-limit, it does not matter how far under you are on the others, you are not supposed to go there.Beyond that, do be aware that not all advertising claims are guaranteed true. Politicians, lawyers, lovers, and advertisers are all known liars.

I'm not a math guy, nor am I much on hitch, pin, towing weights. But you say you end up with 1,420 lbs for pin weight which is over 1/2 ton. And are you a fan of Young Frankenstein?

Your truck is class 2 limited. This includes the 10,000 lb GVWR, even though it may have the same setup as the class 3 F350.Your payload is figured from the weight it left the factory, subtracted from the class limit of 10K. In reality your truck has more capability than the numbers show.Many just go by RAWR, when a FW is involved, as most all of the pin is carried by the rear axle.Jerry

wildtoad wrote:I'm not a math guy, nor am I much on hitch, pin, towing weights. But you say you end up with 1,420 lbs for pin weight which is over 1/2 ton. And are you a fan of Young Frankenstein?I noticed his username and thought the same thing! LMBO!Sorry, back to the topic. The 1/2 ton towable gimmick is nothing more than marketing to sell units to folks who have no clue what they are getting into. A very, very slim number of 1/2 trucks can actually tow a small to medium sized fifth somewhat safely and fall right at the TV specifications (e.g F-150 with max tow and max cargo). But from a marketing strategy, most pick ups on the road are 1/2 ton, so they are trying to appease this crowd and draw them in with what I consider false advertising. Sure, the rig may fall within the 1/2 ton ability completely empty and stripped down. But start adding essential items such as propane tanks, battery, tv's, bed mattress, cook ware, blah blah blah, and presto! Your right at or just north of 10k in most cases. But when it was weighed at the factory it was 1/2 towable. And you'd be amazed at how many people fall for it knowing no better, and how many salesmen say "oh sure, you'll be just fine!". Hogwash and nothing more.

Why doesn't the math work? | Good Sam Community

fj12ryder
Explorer III
Sep 25, 2016
Powerdude wrote:
GVWR is a totally made up number, and it only serves a regulatory need, depending on whatever market niche the manufacturer wants to fill, and what paperwork has been filed with regulatory agencies, nothing more.

Case in point, my 2016 F250.

Front axle WR: 5200 lbs
Rear axle WR: 6100 lbs
Tire ratings: 3450 per tire (2 tires per axle adding up to 7900)

GVWR is 10,000 lbs. What combination of the above numbers adds up to 10,000 lbs ? (Hint: using regular math, no imaginary numbers, or multiple dimensions)...

I can't register it for 10,000 lbs in my state, I can only do either 8000 lbs, or 12000 lbs, no other options. I asked the lady at the DMV what would happen if I registered it for 8k, but I was found overweight. She said I'd get a ticket.

Guess which one I registered it for? :)
Don't forget that in Missouri you register for your GCVWR, not just your GVWR. So if your total weight of truck and trailer exceeds your license weight you can be ticketed. If you're pulling a 8,000 lb. trailer and you get stopped and checked, you could be cited for exceeding your licensed weight. Prolly never happen, but you never know.
Slownsy
Explorer
Sep 25, 2016
Ther is also accelerating from a standing op hill to consider and stopping pover, not only what axle can handle.
Frank.
Rich1961
Explorer
Sep 25, 2016
CWSWine wrote:
When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be "Best In Class Payload" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.

I can't speak for other states, but in California once you have 11,501 lbs GVWR and higher, and the truck weighs 8001 lbs or more unladen, it is no longer considered a pickup. Even though all pickups are registered commercial here, things change on the registration side of things once you exceed those limits.

Rich
rhagfo
Explorer III
Sep 25, 2016
CWSWine wrote:
When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be "Best In Class Payload" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.

Axles are not the limiting factor in most cases, it is tires and wheels.

The Dana 80 rear axle in my 2001 2500 has a rating from Dana of 11,000#, but the stock tires limit to 6,084# on my VIN plate. This is the same axle they use in the 3500 DRW with a higher rating to go along with the greater tire capacity.

In addition the max on aRam SRW is about 12,000#, 14,000# is the limit on the DRW.
CWSWine
Explorer
Sep 25, 2016
When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be "Best In Class Payload" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.
Abby_Normal
Explorer
Sep 24, 2016
ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Abby Normal wrote:

I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question.

WOW!! - TEN pages of "education" for *this* question (so far)!!..:B

Hope you made it past the first page (I didn't) - but.....
hope your question/s have been adequately covered - in depth, LOL.

BTW - *If* you have done that, you will be considered an Associate (or Honorary) Member of the Weight Police...:C

~

Done what?
ol_Bombero-JC
Explorer
Sep 23, 2016
Abby Normal wrote:

I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question.

WOW!! - TEN pages of "education" for *this* question (so far)!!..:B

Hope you made it past the first page (I didn't) - but.....
hope your question/s have been adequately covered - in depth, LOL.

BTW - *If* you have done that, you will be considered an Associate (or Honorary) Member of the Weight Police...:C

~
rhagfo
Explorer III
Sep 21, 2016
sdetweil wrote:
wilber1 wrote:
...

I don't pretend to know why manufacturers chose a particular GVWR for a vehicle and I'm not about to make assumptions about how they do. Just because some states may legislate a maximum GVWR for 3/4 tons, doesn't mean all states do and all GVWR's are determined that way. 1T GVWRs are increasing with every new truck that comes out. You can say it is all about bragging rights but the engineering still has to be there to back them up.

because there are laws in each STATE which defines specific vehicle classes.. 10,000 lbs, 11,600 or 11,700, and 13,000

if you want to sell a truck at a low end of the price range and have it used by commercial buyers (biggest volume) its gotta fit in the laws, AND the fees charged match..

duallys in Massachusetts are commercial.., obviously!.. who knew?!..

so, to stay within the law, they out the appropriate sticker on it.

250/2500's have 10,000 lbs limit, 350/3500 srw's go to 11,700. duallys above that, 13,000... cause thats what the state regs say.
have next to nothing to do with the technical content of the vehicle in most cases..

but.. its a nasty 'law' thing.. so, there MUST be consequences somewhere...

The classes are Federal, it is what some States do with those classes is the killer!
You can only assume that most state law makers, don't own an RV!!!
sdetweil
Explorer
Sep 21, 2016
wilber1 wrote:
...

I don't pretend to know why manufacturers chose a particular GVWR for a vehicle and I'm not about to make assumptions about how they do. Just because some states may legislate a maximum GVWR for 3/4 tons, doesn't mean all states do and all GVWR's are determined that way. 1T GVWRs are increasing with every new truck that comes out. You can say it is all about bragging rights but the engineering still has to be there to back them up.

because there are laws in each STATE which defines specific vehicle classes.. 10,000 lbs, 11,600 or 11,700, and 13,000

if you want to sell a truck at a low end of the price range and have it used by commercial buyers (biggest volume) its gotta fit in the laws, AND the fees charged match..

duallys in Massachusetts are commercial.., obviously!.. who knew?!..

so, to stay within the law, they out the appropriate sticker on it.

250/2500's have 10,000 lbs limit, 350/3500 srw's go to 11,700. duallys above that, 13,000... cause thats what the state regs say.
have next to nothing to do with the technical content of the vehicle in most cases..

but.. its a nasty 'law' thing.. so, there MUST be consequences somewhere...
Slownsy
Explorer
Sep 21, 2016
in Australi GVWR is a legal rating set by manufacturer by what ever means, do not go over or you vill get fined if put on the scales.
Frank.