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Abby_Normal's avatar
Abby_Normal
Explorer
Aug 15, 2016

Why doesn't the math work?

I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question. I have learned that my TV payload is 10,000 lbs. and that the GCWR is 23,500 lbs. The TV with passengers and EXTREMELY LITTLE cargo is 8280 lbs. This leaves 15,220 lbs. for trailer, hitch, and cargo. If I allow 300 lbs. for the hitch and 1200 lbs. for cargo, I have 13,720 lbs. for trailer, right? Not so fast. If the TV only carries 10,000 lbs. and we weigh 8280, we only have 1720 lbs. left for pin weight. What about the weight of the hitch? If the hitch weighs 300 lbs. we now only have 1420 lbs. left for pin weight. Why do manufacturers sell units as 1/2 ton towable when I can't get the math to work for our F-250 diesel?

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  • fj12ryder's avatar
    fj12ryder
    Explorer III
    Sep 25, 2016
    Powerdude wrote:
    GVWR is a totally made up number, and it only serves a regulatory need, depending on whatever market niche the manufacturer wants to fill, and what paperwork has been filed with regulatory agencies, nothing more.

    Case in point, my 2016 F250.

    Front axle WR: 5200 lbs
    Rear axle WR: 6100 lbs
    Tire ratings: 3450 per tire (2 tires per axle adding up to 7900)

    GVWR is 10,000 lbs. What combination of the above numbers adds up to 10,000 lbs ? (Hint: using regular math, no imaginary numbers, or multiple dimensions)...

    I can't register it for 10,000 lbs in my state, I can only do either 8000 lbs, or 12000 lbs, no other options. I asked the lady at the DMV what would happen if I registered it for 8k, but I was found overweight. She said I'd get a ticket.

    Guess which one I registered it for? :)
    Don't forget that in Missouri you register for your GCVWR, not just your GVWR. So if your total weight of truck and trailer exceeds your license weight you can be ticketed. If you're pulling a 8,000 lb. trailer and you get stopped and checked, you could be cited for exceeding your licensed weight. Prolly never happen, but you never know.
  • Slownsy's avatar
    Slownsy
    Explorer
    Sep 25, 2016
    Ther is also accelerating from a standing op hill to consider and stopping pover, not only what axle can handle.
    Frank.
  • Rich1961's avatar
    Rich1961
    Explorer
    Sep 25, 2016
    CWSWine wrote:
    When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be "Best In Class Payload" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.


    I can't speak for other states, but in California once you have 11,501 lbs GVWR and higher, and the truck weighs 8001 lbs or more unladen, it is no longer considered a pickup. Even though all pickups are registered commercial here, things change on the registration side of things once you exceed those limits.

    Rich
  • rhagfo's avatar
    rhagfo
    Explorer III
    Sep 25, 2016
    CWSWine wrote:
    When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be "Best In Class Payload" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.


    Axles are not the limiting factor in most cases, it is tires and wheels.

    The Dana 80 rear axle in my 2001 2500 has a rating from Dana of 11,000#, but the stock tires limit to 6,084# on my VIN plate. This is the same axle they use in the 3500 DRW with a higher rating to go along with the greater tire capacity.

    In addition the max on aRam SRW is about 12,000#, 14,000# is the limit on the DRW.
  • CWSWine's avatar
    CWSWine
    Explorer
    Sep 25, 2016
    When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be "Best In Class Payload" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.
  • Abby_Normal's avatar
    Abby_Normal
    Explorer
    Sep 24, 2016
    ol Bombero-JC wrote:
    Abby Normal wrote:


    I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question.



    WOW!! - TEN pages of "education" for *this* question (so far)!!..:B

    Hope you made it past the first page (I didn't) - but.....
    hope your question/s have been adequately covered - in depth, LOL.

    BTW - *If* you have done that, you will be considered an Associate (or Honorary) Member of the Weight Police...:C

    ~

    Done what?
  • ol_Bombero-JC's avatar
    ol_Bombero-JC
    Explorer
    Sep 23, 2016
    Abby Normal wrote:


    I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question.



    WOW!! - TEN pages of "education" for *this* question (so far)!!..:B

    Hope you made it past the first page (I didn't) - but.....
    hope your question/s have been adequately covered - in depth, LOL.

    BTW - *If* you have done that, you will be considered an Associate (or Honorary) Member of the Weight Police...:C

    ~
  • rhagfo's avatar
    rhagfo
    Explorer III
    Sep 21, 2016
    sdetweil wrote:
    wilber1 wrote:
    ...

    I don't pretend to know why manufacturers chose a particular GVWR for a vehicle and I'm not about to make assumptions about how they do. Just because some states may legislate a maximum GVWR for 3/4 tons, doesn't mean all states do and all GVWR's are determined that way. 1T GVWRs are increasing with every new truck that comes out. You can say it is all about bragging rights but the engineering still has to be there to back them up.


    because there are laws in each STATE which defines specific vehicle classes.. 10,000 lbs, 11,600 or 11,700, and 13,000

    if you want to sell a truck at a low end of the price range and have it used by commercial buyers (biggest volume) its gotta fit in the laws, AND the fees charged match..

    duallys in Massachusetts are commercial.., obviously!.. who knew?!..

    so, to stay within the law, they out the appropriate sticker on it.

    250/2500's have 10,000 lbs limit, 350/3500 srw's go to 11,700. duallys above that, 13,000... cause thats what the state regs say.
    have next to nothing to do with the technical content of the vehicle in most cases..

    but.. its a nasty 'law' thing.. so, there MUST be consequences somewhere...


    The classes are Federal, it is what some States do with those classes is the killer!
    You can only assume that most state law makers, don't own an RV!!!
  • sdetweil's avatar
    sdetweil
    Explorer
    Sep 21, 2016
    wilber1 wrote:
    ...

    I don't pretend to know why manufacturers chose a particular GVWR for a vehicle and I'm not about to make assumptions about how they do. Just because some states may legislate a maximum GVWR for 3/4 tons, doesn't mean all states do and all GVWR's are determined that way. 1T GVWRs are increasing with every new truck that comes out. You can say it is all about bragging rights but the engineering still has to be there to back them up.


    because there are laws in each STATE which defines specific vehicle classes.. 10,000 lbs, 11,600 or 11,700, and 13,000

    if you want to sell a truck at a low end of the price range and have it used by commercial buyers (biggest volume) its gotta fit in the laws, AND the fees charged match..

    duallys in Massachusetts are commercial.., obviously!.. who knew?!..

    so, to stay within the law, they out the appropriate sticker on it.

    250/2500's have 10,000 lbs limit, 350/3500 srw's go to 11,700. duallys above that, 13,000... cause thats what the state regs say.
    have next to nothing to do with the technical content of the vehicle in most cases..

    but.. its a nasty 'law' thing.. so, there MUST be consequences somewhere...
  • Slownsy's avatar
    Slownsy
    Explorer
    Sep 21, 2016
    in Australi GVWR is a legal rating set by manufacturer by what ever means, do not go over or you vill get fined if put on the scales.
    Frank.

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doesn't the math work?","id":"message:2393774","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":99,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:195866"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393774"},"body":"I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question. I have learned that my TV payload is 10,000 lbs. and that the GCWR is 23,500 lbs. The TV with passengers and EXTREMELY LITTLE cargo is 8280 lbs. This leaves 15,220 lbs. for trailer, hitch, and cargo. If I allow 300 lbs. for the hitch and 1200 lbs. for cargo, I have 13,720 lbs. for trailer, right? Not so fast. If the TV only carries 10,000 lbs. and we weigh 8280, we only have 1720 lbs. left for pin weight. What about the weight of the hitch? If the hitch weighs 300 lbs. we now only have 1420 lbs. left for pin weight. Why do manufacturers sell units as 1/2 ton towable when I can't get the math to work for our F-250 diesel?","body@stringLength":"726","rawBody":"I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question. I have learned that my TV payload is 10,000 lbs. and that the GCWR is 23,500 lbs. The TV with passengers and EXTREMELY LITTLE cargo is 8280 lbs. This leaves 15,220 lbs. for trailer, hitch, and cargo. If I allow 300 lbs. for the hitch and 1200 lbs. for cargo, I have 13,720 lbs. for trailer, right? Not so fast. If the TV only carries 10,000 lbs. and we weigh 8280, we only have 1720 lbs. left for pin weight. What about the weight of the hitch? If the hitch weighs 300 lbs. we now only have 1420 lbs. left for pin weight. 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Powerdude wrote:
GVWR is a totally made up number, and it only serves a regulatory need, depending on whatever market niche the manufacturer wants to fill, and what paperwork has been filed with regulatory agencies, nothing more.

Case in point, my 2016 F250.

Front axle WR: 5200 lbs
Rear axle WR: 6100 lbs
Tire ratings: 3450 per tire (2 tires per axle adding up to 7900)

GVWR is 10,000 lbs. What combination of the above numbers adds up to 10,000 lbs ? (Hint: using regular math, no imaginary numbers, or multiple dimensions)...

I can't register it for 10,000 lbs in my state, I can only do either 8000 lbs, or 12000 lbs, no other options. I asked the lady at the DMV what would happen if I registered it for 8k, but I was found overweight. She said I'd get a ticket.

Guess which one I registered it for? :)
Don't forget that in Missouri you register for your GCVWR, not just your GVWR. So if your total weight of truck and trailer exceeds your license weight you can be ticketed. If you're pulling a 8,000 lb. trailer and you get stopped and checked, you could be cited for exceeding your licensed weight. Prolly never happen, but you never know.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-25T14:56:51.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-25T14:56:51.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":587},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393873","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:373601":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:373601","uid":373601,"login":"Slownsy","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2011-01-16T20:11:56.000-08:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-1.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:373601"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393872":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393872","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393872":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:373601"},"id":"message:2393872","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393872,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393872"},"body":"Ther is also accelerating from a standing op hill to consider and stopping pover, not only what axle can handle.
Frank.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"120","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-25T14:00:51.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-25T14:00:51.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":587},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393872","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:1816":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:1816","uid":1816,"login":"Rich1961","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2006-09-09T08:54:07.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-6.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:1816"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393871":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393871","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393871":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:1816"},"id":"message:2393871","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393871,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393871"},"body":"
CWSWine wrote:
When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be \"Best In Class Payload\" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.


I can't speak for other states, but in California once you have 11,501 lbs GVWR and higher, and the truck weighs 8001 lbs or more unladen, it is no longer considered a pickup. Even though all pickups are registered commercial here, things change on the registration side of things once you exceed those limits.

Rich","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-25T08:05:56.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-25T08:05:56.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":588},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393871","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:2086":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:2086","uid":2086,"login":"rhagfo","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2012-07-06T09:49:57.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-12.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:40"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:2086"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393870":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393870","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393870":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:2086"},"id":"message:2393870","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393870,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393870"},"body":"
CWSWine wrote:
When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be \"Best In Class Payload\" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.


Axles are not the limiting factor in most cases, it is tires and wheels.

The Dana 80 rear axle in my 2001 2500 has a rating from Dana of 11,000#, but the stock tires limit to 6,084# on my VIN plate. This is the same axle they use in the 3500 DRW with a higher rating to go along with the greater tire capacity.

In addition the max on aRam SRW is about 12,000#, 14,000# is the limit on the DRW.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-25T07:56:30.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-25T07:56:30.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":588},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393870","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"User:user:243123":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:243123","uid":243123,"login":"CWSWine","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2012-07-18T10:08:34.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-10.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:243123"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393869":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393869","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393869":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:243123"},"id":"message:2393869","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393869,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393869"},"body":"When people start exceeding numbers I just don't stand the reasoning. Take a F350 with 11,500 GVWR Class 3 truck. A SRW Class 3 truck can have GVWR up to 14,000 pounds. Ram SRW are up over 12,000 lbs. If axle ratings are the real limits why won't Ford be \"Best In Class Payload\" and use the axle ratings instead of the lower GVWR? Why doesn't Ford follow RAMS lead and raise the GVWR? There must be a reason! Could it be safety or is something else the limits that truck for carrying that weight. Just food for thought.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-25T07:02:35.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-25T07:02:35.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":588},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393869","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393868":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393868","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393868":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:195866"},"id":"message:2393868","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393868,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393868"},"body":"
ol Bombero-JC wrote:
Abby Normal wrote:


I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question.



WOW!! - TEN pages of \"education\" for *this* question (so far)!!..:B

Hope you made it past the first page (I didn't) - but.....
hope your question/s have been adequately covered - in depth, LOL.

BTW - *If* you have done that, you will be considered an Associate (or Honorary) Member of the Weight Police...:C

~

Done what?","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-24T05:24:26.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-24T05:24:26.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":588},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393868","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[]},"User:user:235155":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:235155","uid":235155,"login":"ol_Bombero-JC","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2004-06-24T21:15:13.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-2.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:235155"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393867":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393867","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393867":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:235155"},"id":"message:2393867","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393867,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393867"},"body":"
Abby Normal wrote:


I have received a lot of education from this forum, but I am back with another question.



WOW!! - TEN pages of \"education\" for *this* question (so far)!!..:B

Hope you made it past the first page (I didn't) - but.....
hope your question/s have been adequately covered - in depth, LOL.

BTW - *If* you have done that, you will be considered an Associate (or Honorary) Member of the Weight Police...:C

~","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-23T11:57:59.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-23T11:57:59.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":587},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393867","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[]},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393866":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393866","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393866":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:2086"},"id":"message:2393866","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393866,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393866"},"body":"
sdetweil wrote:
wilber1 wrote:
...

I don't pretend to know why manufacturers chose a particular GVWR for a vehicle and I'm not about to make assumptions about how they do. Just because some states may legislate a maximum GVWR for 3/4 tons, doesn't mean all states do and all GVWR's are determined that way. 1T GVWRs are increasing with every new truck that comes out. You can say it is all about bragging rights but the engineering still has to be there to back them up.


because there are laws in each STATE which defines specific vehicle classes.. 10,000 lbs, 11,600 or 11,700, and 13,000

if you want to sell a truck at a low end of the price range and have it used by commercial buyers (biggest volume) its gotta fit in the laws, AND the fees charged match..

duallys in Massachusetts are commercial.., obviously!.. who knew?!..

so, to stay within the law, they out the appropriate sticker on it.

250/2500's have 10,000 lbs limit, 350/3500 srw's go to 11,700. duallys above that, 13,000... cause thats what the state regs say.
have next to nothing to do with the technical content of the vehicle in most cases..

but.. its a nasty 'law' thing.. so, there MUST be consequences somewhere...


The classes are Federal, it is what some States do with those classes is the killer!
You can only assume that most state law makers, don't own an RV!!!","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-21T16:44:49.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-21T16:44:49.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":588},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393866","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[]},"User:user:18170":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:18170","uid":18170,"login":"sdetweil","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2013-08-14T05:16:17.000-07:00"},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://community.goodsam.com/t5/s/feyqc97479/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-5.svg?time=1737155183000"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:42"},"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:feyqc97479/user:18170"},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393865":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393865","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393865":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:18170"},"id":"message:2393865","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393865,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393865"},"body":"
wilber1 wrote:
...

I don't pretend to know why manufacturers chose a particular GVWR for a vehicle and I'm not about to make assumptions about how they do. Just because some states may legislate a maximum GVWR for 3/4 tons, doesn't mean all states do and all GVWR's are determined that way. 1T GVWRs are increasing with every new truck that comes out. You can say it is all about bragging rights but the engineering still has to be there to back them up.


because there are laws in each STATE which defines specific vehicle classes.. 10,000 lbs, 11,600 or 11,700, and 13,000

if you want to sell a truck at a low end of the price range and have it used by commercial buyers (biggest volume) its gotta fit in the laws, AND the fees charged match..

duallys in Massachusetts are commercial.., obviously!.. who knew?!..

so, to stay within the law, they out the appropriate sticker on it.

250/2500's have 10,000 lbs limit, 350/3500 srw's go to 11,700. duallys above that, 13,000... cause thats what the state regs say.
have next to nothing to do with the technical content of the vehicle in most cases..

but.. its a nasty 'law' thing.. so, there MUST be consequences somewhere...","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"203","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-21T13:00:53.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-21T13:00:53.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":588},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393865","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[]},"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393864":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:2393864","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"ForumReplyMessage:message:2393864":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","author":{"__ref":"User:user:373601"},"id":"message:2393864","revisionNum":1,"uid":2393864,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:FifthWheelforum-board"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:2393774"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:2393774"},"subject":"Re: Why doesn't the math work?","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:2393864"},"body":"in Australi GVWR is a legal rating set by manufacturer by what ever means, do not go over or you vill get fined if put on the scales.
Frank.","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"141","kudosSumWeight":0,"repliesCount":0,"postTime":"2016-09-21T12:10:26.000-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2016-09-21T12:10:26.000-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":589},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"grouphub:FifthWheel/category:TRAVELCENTER/community:feyqc97479board:FifthWheelforum-board/message:2393774/message:2393864","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"customFields":[]},"CachedAsset:text:en_US-components/community/Navbar-1741694506000":{"__typename":"CachedAsset","id":"text:en_US-components/community/Navbar-1741694506000","value":{"community":"Community 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