24 ft ClassC MH downsides

Gjac wrote:
There are two main reasons why I wanted to down size. The first is two front end failures while taking a corner. The first was at 25 mpg getting on an interstate in Ohio. LH ball joint just collapsed. I took about a 2 weeks to get it fixed. It was still a harrowing experience for my wife. After it was fixed I assured her it was as good as new. The shop I used back home told me that the shop in Ohio put the wrong ball joints in so they replaced both sides. The following year in Montana while rounding a curve at 60 mpg the rh ball joint failed, dropped, blew the front tire and we almost flipped over. I had all I could do to hold on to the steering wheel and bring it to a stop. To make matters worse the sparks or hot rubber from the front end or hot tire pieces started a fire in the dry grass and came within 20 ft of the MH before some passer by's helped get it under control before the fire dept came. This was in a remote area of Mt. and we could not find a truck stop to work on a Class A MH. Not many truck stops want to work on Class A MHs anyways. The MH had to be towed 250 miles west to Great Falls Mt because that is the only place the insurance co. could find that would take it. The accident happed in July, we did not get the MH fixed until Nov.so we had to drive back in the snow. That really did it for my wife. Turns out the shop back home put in undersized ball joints twice. All P-30 chassis are not the same( another story). So when my wife thinks about all the mountainous windy roads we traveled out west and a front end failure occurred we would defiantly gone over the edge. So the two main reasons is two accidents one almost fatal the second when you need chassis work on a larger MH in a remote area in the summer time when many folks travel finding a truck stop to work on one can be very difficult. I would much prefer a 30-32 ft Class A with a straight front axle but my wife says 3 strikes and your out.

For onroad handling, stability, and ease of maintenance and repair I recommend a Class C as small as you can tolerate ... and look for it built on a Ford E450 chassis - NOT an E350 chassis. The additional ruggedness and general overall "chassis overkill" of an E450 for a small Class C - that will never be an overloaded chassis regardless of how much stuff you want to pack it with, including full tanks - makes for a great combination that you can trust to take better care of you.

Many folks could not tolerate this, but -> stay away from slides. They just add a level of complexity and structure compromise that is not needed for ultimate coach integrity and reliability mile after mile, season after season. For the maximum coach interior feeling in a slideless short Class C, make sure it's of the "widebody" design style - from 100 inches to 102 inches wide.

Our first new motorhome has been - right from the start - a great fully self-contained little rig that has taken us on trips up to 10 weeks long all over the U.S. and out into the middle of nowhere in the Western U.S. deserts for us to explore and camp (we're rockhounds). We can park it just about anywhere in parking lots and in public campgrounds with tent-size spots if required. It is rock solid stable on the open road on curves and in high cross-winds, but I did have installed Koni FSD (Frequency Selective Damping) shocks in the rear to soften the jolts from highway cracks - due to it's under-loaded E450 chassis.

Our Itasca (Winnebago built) E450 based, widebody, slideless, Class C has all of this in it's 24 foot length:

- Two queen beds (rear corner and cab overhead).
- One full size bed (dinette quickly converted if/when needed).
- Built-in privacy curtains for the rear bed and bathroom, cab overhead bed, and cab area.
- A built-in 4000 watt generator that is quiet enough to be tolerated inside and outside for hours.
- A 13,500 BTU air conditioner, fully ducted throughout the coach.
- A 101 inch wide coach design.
- Non-stock larger diameter tires for more off-highway clearance.
- One swivel/sliding lounge chair.
- Swept up rear coach wall design for a better departure angle on off-road ruts and uphill driveways.
- An 18 gallon propane tank (60-65 lbs. of propane when filled to ~80%).
- A 25,000 BTU furnace, fully ducted throughout the coach.
- 45 gallons of fresh water.
- 39 gallons of black water.
- 29 gallons of grey water (the black and grey tanks can be combined).
- Two 12V Group 31, 115 AH each, deep cycle AGM coach batteries with monitors in the coach and the cab.
- No low hanging coach outside components (all plumbing/electrical items are high up in locked outside cabinets).
- 7 outside steel lined cabinets, with two of them extending cross-wise under the coach floor for long items.
- A good performing propane/electric refrigerator for drycamping with no sun, if necessary.
- A dry bath with a good sized shower, including a double-pane skylight over the shower.
- A solid heavy duty exterior ladder for roof access anywhere, anytime.
- An automatic outside coach step that does not portrude lower than the coach wall when retracted.
- A 158 inch wheel base that even makes possible U-turns on most residential streets.

Here's us camped off a 4x4 road way out there in Death Valley:

I have a 23u, about 24'10" as someone stated. Previous to thus I had a 40 ft diesel funmover. B4 that, 5th wheel toyhauler, diesel truck. I bought this 23u BECAUSE it had no slide outs, so no slide out issues. Been there, done that. I adjusted the caster to the max on alignment, added a heavy duty torsion bar to the rear. Really helped in the wind.

My model is on a e450 chassis, 2017. I wanted more truck in case I needed it. That said, I'm an avid dirt biker/dual sport rider. With this setup I carry a load on the hitch of less than 500 lbs with gas can for short trips, or tow a jeep and hang a bike off that for longer trips. I store a sea eagle kayak in the cargo bay along with spares, tools, tires, etc. Always travel with water full. Always. Never know if where I go has water. I get 8.4 to 9.6 without towing and 8.1 to 8.5 towing. Eh. Is what it is.

It's proven tough enough to take the occasional dirt roads, foul weather. The box structure is stronger without the slide out holes. It's very handy to drive. Another consideration for me is there are thousands of high mileage Thor basic 23u models out over 100k miles in the rental business getting abused. If the product can take that, it can take me. Fwiw I'd step up and get the 23u instead of the 22 model. Might not seem like much but that barrel chair makes a big difference on your back moving to chairs if stuck in during rain!

There are two main reasons why I wanted to down size. The first is two front end failures while taking a corner. The first was at 25 mpg getting on an interstate in Ohio. LH ball joint just collapsed. I took about a 2 weeks to get it fixed. It was still a harrowing experience for my wife. After it was fixed I assured her it was as good as new. The shop I used back home told me that the shop in Ohio put the wrong ball joints in so they replaced both sides. The following year in Montana while rounding a curve at 60 mpg the rh ball joint failed, dropped, blew the front tire and we almost flipped over. I had all I could do to hold on to the steering wheel and bring it to a stop. To make matters worse the sparks or hot rubber from the front end or hot tire pieces started a fire in the dry grass and came within 20 ft of the MH before some passer by's helped get it under control before the fire dept came. This was in a remote area of Mt. and we could not find a truck stop to work on a Class A MH. Not many truck stops want to work on Class A MHs anyways. The MH had to be towed 250 miles west to Great Falls Mt because that is the only place the insurance co. could find that would take it. The accident happed in July, we did not get the MH fixed until Nov.so we had to drive back in the snow. That really did it for my wife. Turns out the shop back home put in undersized ball joints twice. All P-30 chassis are not the same( another story). So when my wife thinks about all the mountainous windy roads we traveled out west and a front end failure occurred we would defiantly gone over the edge. So the two main reasons is two accidents one almost fatal the second when you need chassis work on a larger MH in a remote area in the summer time when many folks travel finding a truck stop to work on one can be very difficult. I would much prefer a 30-32 ft Class A with a straight front axle but my wife says 3 strikes and your out.

Got the C after years with the 5er. DW never got on to hitching and un-hitching , but drove the truck ok (except backing :) ) So now we have the C and still get it all done, but either one of us could do it all if need be (older now). Don't need a toad for where we go.

So I am not sure either why to go from an A to small (much smaller!) C that both could drive all same. OP must have good reason, who knows?

I have a 24' class c and many times thought I would like to have a 32' class a again. Why do you want a 24' class c? My favorite motorhome was new 1990 Winnebago Superchief class A. Loved camping in it and enjoying the view thru the big front windshield. Many times I have wondered why I sold it and purchased a 5th wheel. Now I have a class c. If your staying with a gas class c you not going to see much MPG improvement. I also thought with the 24' class c I would not want a toad, went without one for awhile and didn't like not having one. Don't jump into downsizing. Dick

Hi Gjac, I will answer your questions as best I can and explain why I bought what I did. I apologize up front for its length.

Gjac , " Is it common for a 24 ft to be built on a 450 Chassis? "

---Yes, from what I have seen it appears that the 450 is being used more and more but I do not know the exact numbers and what brands. I think some folks were overloading the 350's even on the smaller 24-25 ft models. The 450 seems to have a heavier frame and maybe a little larger brakes . It could probably get by using a lighter front spring set up.
I also tow a toad as well as a few other trailers depending, so my 7500 lb tow rating of the 450 was a good thing.


Gjac," I was thinking of just storing bikes, my rubber raft and fishing stuff in the rear bin."

---I'm not sure about storing the bikes. Might not fit in most compartments plus their weight on those bins would not be a good idea. You would have to have the needed height to carry them on the added supports over the bin. The rear end tends to pound over the bumps, stressing the bins.
Another option is buy a metal basket, like a bicycle basket, that fits inside the bins and secure it to the bins top edges, using that solid perimeter framework. The basket then supports the weight without stressing the bin, it acts like a 'bin liner'. (Not to be confused with that ex-terrorist)

The raft could be a little heavy and bulky too. I used to carry a Sea-Eagle 285 but only carried it inside the rv on the solid floor. My bikes go onto my hitch bike-rack, either on my toad or on my rv. I now carry a kayak or canoe on top of my toad or in and on my 5x12 v-nose utility trailer when I bring that .
A few people remove dinette cushions and install bike fork support tie-downs on the plywood base. Remove the front tires and lock down the forks to carry the bikes inside the rv. I would also strap it thru an eye-bolt so the bike doesn't accidently go through the window if the fork lock lets go. I know it's unlikely but its just a strap and 1 minute of your time.



" Do most 24ft C's have a 158 in WB? "

---I really do not know, but 158" is common as far as I have seen. I guess it would depend on the brand. I didn't consider the WB , I was concentrating on other needs this time.

I know there are other brands of C's that owners really like but when I looked at them, I could not find a full queen bed 60x80 innerspring plus 'extra large' baggage compartments in a non-slide unit. Full queen in a 60" width corner beds gives you a slightly smaller shower of 24x30. We do fine with that.
The other thing important to me was the extended season use so I could head up to north country by the border where the weather changes every hour. I needed all 3 options, so the brand didn't matter.
I placed digital thermometers in key areas to see what was going on regarding temps.
The FR Sunseeker has all water lines inside the rv routed thru heated areas. Designed to flow from strategically located ducts like the one inside the water pump compartment. That duct also heats under the bed and freshwater tank . That heat creeps up inside the interior shower wall, thru an opening at the bottom of the wall to where the shower plumbing is located. Under both sinks and under the raised floor are also heated to protect those lines.

I found this unit and it had everything we wanted, so we went with it knowing we had to optionally tweak up the suspension . But, it has been a solid build for us.
I would not jump into suspension upgrading until its been driven awhile, then decide. Do the alignment and experiment with tire psi.

What is important is the safety ratio of length.

Below is a commonly used calculation and formula:

** Measure the entire length of the RV, including bumpers.
Measure the distance from the center of the front tire to the center of the rear tire.
Divide the length of the wheel distance by the length of the RV.
Multiply that figure by 100.
For example, if your coach is 38 feet long and the distance between the center of its front and rear tires is 20 feet, you would

Divide 20 by 38 to get .526.
Multiply .526 by 100 to get your wheel base ratio which is 52.6.
Any figure above 50 is considered acceptable, but the higher the better. The rule of thumb from the RV industry is 60 or more to maximize highway driving safety.
My unit is 54.86% , well that's good I guess . I should get myself a Mustang emblem for this thing :)


Gjac,, " Were your suspension upgrades because of the length/WB or common to most C's".

---I'm not 100% sure but I think it was that plus the full cabover size . The whole package can sometimes act like a sail in a crosswind. I can still feel wind pushing me at times but all upgrades have greatly reduced things.
Im crossing bridges often and drive interstates so I feel a lot of wind traffic. Its a lot more controllable on back roads.
When I first drove it across a large bridge coming home from the dealer , it was very windy and I was looking for the life jackets and wishing I had the Sea-Eagle. But getting it aligned solved that. ;) The rest of my upgrades were less of an impact but imo, still worth it. I did things one at a time.
The track bar helped the crosswind and bow wave push , the sways solved the rocking side to side and the turns on back roads were smoother, less stressful and didn't feel my toad push me into corners as it did from the start. Rear track bars limit the ever so slight side to side axle movement which transfers to the front end.

I would think a 26-27 ft unit with a longer wheelbase and higher ratio would probably handle better and maybe not need all the extra upgrades but im not really sure. I can only fit a 25 ft in my driveway.

But now after doing these upgrades if fine with the handling of my 24, its nice driving back roads as well as highways.

I hope my info helps you make a sound decision,
Bob

BFL13 wrote:
Interesting figures for the newer 24s.

The newer trucks have more capacity GVWR than the older ones did, so that also affects Cs, which I had not thought of before.

A C is an RV added to an "incomplete truck", which could also have been made into an ambulance, eg. So same C on a same size newer truck will eat less of the GVWR than with the older truck.

Above, we have 24s with more like 14,400 GVWR while our 1991 28 has 11,000 GVWR. Loaded we scaled at 12,232 (actually 5,560 kg). We are under on the front and over on the back. Can't be helped as it is at rating for the back when empty. How it is.

On wheel base and overhang, ours is 176" WB and 140" overhang. Maybe 30" more up front ahead of the wheels. So a "24" would be 288 with maybe 30 up front? So call it 258 less 158 WB = 100 overhang at the back.

158/100 = 1.58 and 176/140 = 1.26 so the overhang is more with our 28.

OK, so with newer Cs you should look at their numbers carefully to see what is really going on.

Yes, things have come quite aways in the nearly 30 years since your rig was built. Even the new E350 has up to 12,500 GVWR as well as much more power.

I think the WB ratio that BFL13 mentioned is the WB/L of MH. In other words his has a WB of 176ins and a length of 28 ft x 12ins/ft or 336ins or a ratio of .52. A 24ft MH with a WB of 158in would be .69 which in theory be much better.

Interesting figures for the newer 24s.

The newer trucks have more capacity GVWR than the older ones did, so that also affects Cs, which I had not thought of before.

A C is an RV added to an "incomplete truck", which could also have been made into an ambulance, eg. So same C on a same size newer truck will eat less of the GVWR than with the older truck.

Above, we have 24s with more like 14,400 GVWR while our 1991 28 has 11,000 GVWR. Loaded we scaled at 12,232 (actually 5,560 kg). We are under on the front and over on the back. Can't be helped as it is at rating for the back when empty. How it is.

On wheel base and overhang, ours is 176" WB and 140" overhang. Maybe 30" more up front ahead of the wheels. So a "24" would be 288 with maybe 30 up front? So call it 258 less 158 WB = 100 overhang at the back.

158/100 = 1.58 and 176/140 = 1.26 so the overhang is more with our 28.

OK, so with newer Cs you should look at their numbers carefully to see what is really going on.

I think most models with the corner bed has the large storage container. The outside storage was very important to us which was one of the reasons we went with that floor plan, but I think every manufacturer has that plan. We also went with a no-slide plan for several reasons, one is the slides really cut into outside storage. We went with a Thor 23h (24'10" by tape measure) and one reason was because it has the largest outside storage we could find. It holds the mounted spare tire/jack/lug wrench, all the chairs and tables, a Yeti 45 and 35, 20" kids bike, cornhole boards, portable fire pit, Coleman Road Trip, full-size 5 gal propane cyl, two milk crates full of sewer hoses and fittings, 120v 2 gal air compressor, and all the spare tool bags all at once. And I'm sure I'm missing some things.

With this length you should have no issues with overloading. We are 2200 below GVWR when fully loaded for a trip, and the front axle is closer to the limit than the back.