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Cbones's avatar
Cbones
Explorer
May 26, 2014

Allison 3000 fluid change

Just curious if anyone has had an Allison 3000MH fluid and filter change with TES295 recently? I was quoted $875 for changing both filters and draining/refilling with TES295. I already have the TES295 in it so it's not a flush or anything special, just a simple change. I think that seems excessive. That was at a local Allison service center, who claims that they have never done a motorhome tranny fluid change. I have 90K miles on a 4 yo coach, and according to Allison's site I am due for a service, even though the service indicator says oil life 78%. Tranman says just run an oil analysi and look for any issues before changing, but I feel that I would rather just change the fluid so as to not have to worry about it. Any suggestions?
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  • Cbones's avatar
    Cbones
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    >>>>>..This quote from another forum seems to indicate the fluid loss may be close to 2 gal. If you decide to change the fluid as well as the filters now, I would still council you to do the sample test. Beyond giving you an idea of the condition of the fluid, it also reports contaminants and wear metals which indicate the health of the transmission itself. It's exactly like a blood test during a physical. It's not just about the condition of the blood.


    "You'll get maybe a quart from the main filter and up to 2 gallons from the lube filter depending on fluid temperature."

    This was from Tom Johnson. Another quote stated that the poster changed filters with the fluid cold & lost less than one gal.

    I guess total fluid loss is not as definitive as I thought it would be....<<<<<

    Steve,

    I am not looking to start a whole nother discussion, but I am heavily involved in general aviation. Lots of folks feel real strong regarding, oil analysis in aviation, and I used to be in that camp. After many years (almost 40), I have really not seen that oil analysis really made any decisions that we would have made any different from other indicators. Usually, you might see high wear metals one time and then not again. Ultimately we wouldn't pull an engine from service until you would see obvious pieces in the oil or filter. What I am saying is that I can understand the need for analysis, but in the end there are other indicators for making major decisions. As far as the tranny goes, I have no issues, and I really don't see that it is going to save that much money to offset the costs of just changing all the fluid proactively rather than just constantly doing oil analysis to extend the interval. After all each analysis is just shy of a gal of Transynd in cost. I know that there is more info to be gained from analysis, but in reality, if I get a high wear number on the analysis, what am I really going to do short of a failure, and in the alternative, a normal analysis (which is great for piece of mind) is no guarantee that a pending failure is not imminent.
  • Cbones's avatar
    Cbones
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    wolfe10 wrote:
    Sorry, were it mine, at 90,000 miles and XX years, I would change fluid as well as filters. So one 5 gallon pail of Transynd and the Allison filter kit.


    I am pretty much in agreement with you. I am way overthinking this. We are not talking thousands of $$$, just a couple of hundred for parts and some time. To put things in perspective, a tank of fuel costs more!
  • wolfe10's avatar
    wolfe10
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    Sorry, were it mine, at 90,000 miles and XX years, I would change fluid as well as filters. So one 5 gallon pail of Transynd and the Allison filter kit.
  • steveownby's avatar
    steveownby
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    Cbones wrote:
    Fire Up,

    No disrespect meant, but if you re-read my first post on this topic, you will see that I am not changing over to Transynd. I am already running Transynd. My quandary is whether to change out all the Transynd at 90K miles, or only do a filter change and top off the lost Transynd and perform an oil analysi. Or, just change the filters and all the Transynd, and not worry about it for another few years. My prognostics tell me that neither is due right now, OL 78% OF ok, but Allison states that on MHs you can't go by the prognostics, as we don't run a heavy enough of a duty cycle for the prognostics to be accurate. My last and final question is how much fluid do you lose only doing a filter change? If it is a couple of gallons, then the difference to replacing all the fluid is really not too much more.


    This quote from another forum seems to indicate the fluid loss may be close to 2 gal. If you decide to change the fluid as well as the filters now, I would still council you to do the sample test. Beyond giving you an idea of the condition of the fluid, it also reports contaminants and wear metals which indicate the health of the transmission itself. It's exactly like a blood test during a physical. It's not just about the condition of the blood.


    "You'll get maybe a quart from the main filter and up to 2 gallons from the lube filter depending on fluid temperature."

    This was from Tom Johnson. Another quote stated that the poster changed filters with the fluid cold & lost less than one gal.

    I guess total fluid loss is not as definitive as I thought it would be.
  • Cbones's avatar
    Cbones
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    Fire Up,

    No disrespect meant, but if you re-read my first post on this topic, you will see that I am not changing over to Transynd. I am already running Transynd. My quandary is whether to change out all the Transynd at 90K miles, or only do a filter change and top off the lost Transynd and perform an oil analysi. Or, just change the filters and all the Transynd, and not worry about it for another few years. My prognostics tell me that neither is due right now, OL 78% OF ok, but Allison states that on MHs you can't go by the prognostics, as we don't run a heavy enough of a duty cycle for the prognostics to be accurate. My last and final question is how much fluid do you lose only doing a filter change? If it is a couple of gallons, then the difference to replacing all the fluid is really not too much more.
  • FIRE_UP's avatar
    FIRE_UP
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    FIRE UP wrote:
    Cbones wrote:
    Can anyone comment on how much fluid you lose on only a filter change on a 3000MH?


    Cbones,
    Well Sir, you've been given some good advice. This is what I did, and, under the directions of the fella on here that's the all time guru of Allison Transmissions, I forgot what his handle here is. Anyway, this is the simple procedure he outlined for anyone changing over to Transynd.

    Drain transmission.(do not change filters at this time) Refill with 19 quarts of Transynd.(19 quarts for the MH3000 model). Drive anywhere from 150 to a 1000 miles. Drain it all again. Only this time, change the filters. Refill with new Transynd. Now, you're completely done for 100,000 miles.

    I did the initial change/drain/refill then, drove from San Diego to Quartzsite AZ and back for that annual RV event in January. When I got home, I had around 700 miles on the initial drain/refill. I hated to see that brand new, 19 quarts drain out only to be thrown away. But, you gotta do what you gotta do. And, according to him, that procedure was good enough for Allison to call it a complete conversion to Transynd.

    Now, this was all done about, 2 years ago, plus or minus some. And, in my records, I paid $165 per, 5 gallon pail of Transynd. So, yep, that was a $330.00 transmission oil change and, that did not include the filters. But, I NEVER have to worry about that trans again, while I own it anyway.
    Scott
  • FIRE_UP's avatar
    FIRE_UP
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    Cbones wrote:
    Can anyone comment on how much fluid you lose on only a filter change on a 3000MH?


    Cbones,
    Well Sir, you've been given some good advice. This is what I did, and, under the directions of the fella on here that's the all time guru of Allison Transmissions, I forgot what his handle here is. Anyway, this is the simple procedure he outlined for anyone changing over to Transynd.

    Drain transmission.(do not change filters at this time) Refill with 19 quarts of Transynd.(19 quarts for the MH3000 model). Drive anywhere from 150 to a 1000 miles. Drain it all again. Only this time, change the filters. Refill with new Transynd. Now, you're completely done for 100,000 miles.

    I did the initial change/drain/refill then, drove from San Diego to Quartzsite AZ and back for that annual RV event in January. When I got home, I had around 700 miles on the initial drain/refill. I hated to see that brand new, 19 quarts drain out only to be thrown away. But, you gotta do what you gotta do.

    Now, this was all done about, 2 years ago, plus or minus some. And, in my records, I paid $165 per, 5 gallon pail of Transynd. So, yep, that was a $330.00 transmission oil change and, that did not include the filters. But, I NEVER have to worry about that trans again, while I own it anyway.
    Scott

    On edit: The gents handle on here and on IRV2 is: hzjcm8 and his name is Tom Johnson. And, by the way, my specs were off on his recommendation for the driving of the rig after the initial change. I just checked my old threads, and it was/is, drive for "30 minutes" then, empty that brand new stuff out, throw it away and install more brand new stuff.
    Scott
  • Cbones's avatar
    Cbones
    Explorer
    May 27, 2014
    Can anyone comment on how much fluid you lose on only a filter change on a 3000MH?
  • sdbounderdiesel's avatar
    sdbounderdiesel
    Explorer
    May 26, 2014
    I had my transmission fluid and filters changed last year at my local Freightliner service center. Price of Transynd fluid was about $40 per gallon. Mine used 5 gal. May be cheaper if you get the 5 gal container as suggested by another poster. Filter kit (includes both filters and gaskets/etc.)was about $65. I think I paid about $425 parts & labor.
  • steveownby's avatar
    steveownby
    Explorer
    May 26, 2014
    Cbones wrote:
    steveownby wrote:
    Cbones wrote:
    Just curious if anyone has had an Allison 3000MH fluid and filter change with TES295 recently? I was quoted $875 for changing both filters and draining/refilling with TES295. I already have the TES295 in it so it's not a flush or anything special, just a simple change. I think that seems excessive. That was at a local Allison service center, who claims that they have never done a motorhome tranny fluid change. I have 90K miles on a 4 yo coach, and according to Allison's site I am due for a service, even though the service indicator says oil life 78%. Tranman says just run an oil analysi and look for any issues before changing, but I feel that I would rather just change the fluid so as to not have to worry about it. Any suggestions?


    With a 4 year old coach and 90k on the clock, I would pull a sample and send it here:


    http://www.jglubricantservices.com/online_store.html

    If it tests ok, then change the filters and top up with fresh fluid. Then test fluid annually and change filters in 3 more years. The Allison recommendation is 36 months on filters and 48 months on the fluid or test.

    The Allison OEM filters should be about $50 for the 2 filter kit. The Transynd is about $40-42/gal. The sample test kit is about $25.

    On the IRV2 Allison Forum, the retired Allison engineer who wrote the TES295 spec authored a thread and he will answer questions and interpret test results. His name is Tom Johnson.



    Steve,
    Thanks for the reply. I have already been in touch with Tom. I mistakenly referred to him as "Tranman". How much fluid do you wind up losing with just a filter change? I was under the impression that it was almost 2 gals, so I figured it really wasn't too much more to just change all the fluid and not have to worry about it for a while.


    I don't have actual experience with the 3000. My transmission is the 4000 which takes about 10 gal for a change and does take about 2 gal for the top off. The filter kit for both transmissions are the same but I was under the impression that the fluid loss on a filter change was less than one gal on the 3000.

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