Class A Gas or Diesel

Why is it so difficult to admit that there are well-known/recognized design features in a large/heavy diesel pusher which are simply NOT in gas-engined motorhomes. We all know there's definite reasons why the large diesel pusher motorhome evolved into what it is. Why is it that most of us had gas-engined motorhomes THEN at some point upgraded to a diesel pusher?
And, how about all the guys like me, who after fighting the short-comings of gasoline motorhomes (five, in my case) finally decide to cough up the money in order to enjoy the comfort of driving (and using) a nice large diesel pusher? OK, so the cost is higher than we would prefer, but we all know that you pay for all other luxuries, to say nothing of pride-of-ownership. Sure, you can say it's poor money management. But, keep in mind that it didn't cost you a dime.
THERE, I got it off my chest.....:B

heck, pickups are coming with 420 HP diesels for last 5 years.
Sure when you compare 20 years old coach with new one you are talking totally different technologies.
But to give you real feeling about engine choice, read the topic by member who converted his gasoline pusher to diesel pusher.
It is here.

there is no doubt that the new larger gassers are far superior in design, quality and construction compared to the ones made back in the mid 2000

I disagree that "donfrump" statement was a cheap shot. As a matter of fact, I think it's right on point. I also think that people who buy expensive products, be it a motor home or a toad braking system will rarely discuss it's shortcomings for fear of looking foolish because of the money they spent.

When I owned my 32' Fleetwood Terra with the GM 8.1, I could blow the doors off of my sister's 34' Itasca DP with a 350 Cat when climbing grades. I later bought a 36' Monaco Diplomat with a 400 ISL that was lightweight and I chipped to 450HP. There were very few gassers out their that could beat it in a half mile drag race. Now, my new coach is a DOG, due to weight and the drive train it's pushing. It will do okay, but it won't beat a gasser in a drag race and will probably be beat by a lot of gassers going uphill.

Soooooo.......performance is all about HP/Torque and the weight of the coach. Again, the lines between a gasser and a DP are being blurred. You really need to look at use when determining how much coach you will need.

My sister just sold her Itasca DP and they took delivery of their new 34 Fleetwood Southwind last night. It has 22.5 tires, a nice floorplan and a lot of amenities. It's a nice coach. There are many coaches that if I blind folded you until you got inside, you may have a hard time knowing if it's a more expensive DP or a gasser.

427435 wrote:
Lots of misinformation and slanted views in this thread-------------same old gas vs diesel stuff.

First a little background. I spent much of my career engineering and operating off highway equipment with diesel engines..

I can't get it how a member can make such entrance and follow with arguments on kinder-garden level.
With such education you should be able to come with balance sheet showing cost of use include purchase price, money spend on fuel and depreciation at the time of selling.
Sure for DP purchase, especially when you buy higher quality you have to give up some of your collectible cars, but when you buy gasser don't you have to sell you collection to get fuel money?
What you do at the end when hit with huge depreciation on gasser?

427435 wrote:

msturtz wrote:
We went to a gasser from a TT. We were disappointed at the noise and jarring ride in the gasser. Those problems can be mitigated but you cannot escape the roar of a V 10 running at 4000 RPM a foot away. The other issue is heat coming from the engine. On hot days the heat was intense. Again it can be fixed but is expensive if the manufacturer didn't do it. We ended up trading it in fo a DP. The other problem is tow rating. The max tow rating for a gasser is 5k.

$150 of Dynamat products will take care of most of the heat and noise. A proper alignment (lots of caster) and some Koni FSD shocks help a bunch on the ride and handling. There's no way I would spend the extra money for a DP-------------nor do I have to worry about the costs of replacing a turbo or injection pump on a diesel.

As for power, we have been more than satisfied with our "old" 310 hp V10 even though we have a 5000 lb toad behind us.

We did use hushmat by removing all the carpet and had the doghouse insulated as well. The unit also had upgraded shocks and Hellwig helper springs. The noise and poor ride quality was still too much.

I don't know which diesels don't accelerate very well, or don't down shift when you "floor" the accelerator pedal, but mine is no slouch. Which large gasser Class A outperforms mine, when moving 35,000 lbs? Mine does just fine, and all I have to do is jam the pedal to the floor, and the 6-speed Allison automatically selects the optimum gear ratio(for highest performance). The trick is to HOLD the pedal all the way down as long as it takes to satisfy your performance needs (reach your cruise speed as quickly as possible).

Lots of misinformation and slanted views in this thread-------------same old gas vs diesel stuff.

First a little background. I spent much of my career engineering and operating off highway equipment with diesel engines. I understand their construction, operation, and maintenance. I am also a bit of a gear head---------------love old cars and working on them.


OK, let's start with the cheap shot about people making excuses because of money limits. There are also people that are trying to play big man at the RV park because of their own insecurities. I could easily have afforded a DP, but there are other things I can spend money on (like old cars). And the extra spending doesn't just stop with the initial purchase. Check out not only the cost of routine maintenance but the cost of dealing with turbo, injection pump, and other possible diesel engine repairs.

Gassers are indeed made to a price point and some corners get cut (like dog house insulation). However, the house part of a reputable manufacturer like Winnebago (and others) is fine (I don't need granite counter tops).

After we took our first trip in our (now old) 2000 Itasca 35U, I did indeed notice the harshness of the ride, the noise of the engine, and difficulty in driving it straight. Before our next major trip, I made some easy improvements. As I pointed out earlier $150 of materials and an afternoon eliminated engine noise at cruise and made it very reasonable when climbing mountains. A set of Koni FSD shocks greatly reduced the harshness and improved handling. A set of air bag assists on the rear also helped handling. Finally, a good alignment with plenty of caster made the handling fine----------for a truck with lots of "sail" area.

I helped team drive a friend's DP back from the Outlaw nationals at Knoxville one night. It was a Monaco from the early 2000's. It did not handle any better than my gasser nor was it any faster. It was quieter on acceleration. It did respond as expected when the accelerator was floored------------which is to say slow and steady.

To put it another way, I would not trade my MH for his even up.

And my MH only has the 310 hp V10 and a 4 speed transmission. The newer units with the 6 speed and higher hp would only make the performance better.

So far our MH has taken us comfortably and reliably to 45 of the 49 states you can drive to. The sights seen and the good times we've had would not have been any different if we would have been in a DP.

willald wrote:

donfrump wrote:

willald wrote:

donfrump wrote:
Heres one thing I have noticed over my entire lifetime.When a person simply can not afford a certain product and has to settle for a lessor they simply hate the one they cant afford and will find umpteen reasons they would never buy such a item.

Very true, Don, I've seen same thing many times. Tis human nature, I suppose, the ol' fox and sour grapes thing.

HOWEVER, my previous post relating my experience, opinion on a diesel pusher, is NOT AT ALL related to what I can or can't afford. The unit I was looking at was within our reach financially. $$ didn't really enter into it much this time. The extreme sluggish feel and lack of throttle response when hitting the accelerator, did. :)

Also, the flip-side to your point is also true, Don: Those that spend significantly more $$ on one choise over another, will religiously defend their choice to the very end, swear its the best thing since sliced bread, to justify in their own head why they chose to spend so much more $$. Not ALWAYS the case, but again, it is human nature.

Will

on the flip side of the flip side.You may beat my 450ISL off the line but going up a long 5-6% grade I will leave u in the dust

..Possibly, but all depends on a lot of factors. Not the least of which is, who is loading down the heaviest, and just how hard each of us is willing to push it.

When my V10 drops down several gears and starts 'roaring' at 'bout 6,000 RPMs....It can pull us up long, steep grades every bit as fast as I want it to. :)

but mine is not sluggish off the line? not sure what your test drive one was up to

I wondered same thing, if one I was driving may have had something wrong with it. But, I kept thinking, surely a brand new Cummins ISL 380 HP/1150 torque diesel shouldn't already have something wrong with it, robbing it of any horsepower?? I'd hope not!

I just kept thinking, man, with 380 horsepower, thats all the umph its got?! Good gracious, this sluggishness would drive me insane, haha. :)

Will

Willald, you bought exactly what works for you and that's the most important thing.

I also don't quite understand the sluggishness that you speak of. At 55,500 lbs., our 500 HP Volvo with 1,770 lb. ft. of torque moves at a strong steady pace.

When I floor it, it downshifts giving me the extra power needed to move my behemoth to pass whatever I'm wanting to pass.

I could only imagine what a gas motor would be like in our coach. It would probably glow red and people would think it was a Cummins.

MM.

willald wrote:
I just kept thinking, man, with 380 horsepower, thats all the umph its got?! Good gracious, this sluggishness would drive me insane, haha. :)

Sounds like a short drive.